The Democratic National Convention

[Burinn]

In the words of Thomas Sowell, the real minimum wage is zero. This is what many inexperienced and low skilled workers are receiving right now due to legislation that makes it illegal to pay them what they are actually to an employer.

This is especially terrible when these people come from low-income, unskilled and/or minority backgrounds and urgently need to start climbing the job ladder as soon as they are able to and are prevented because what they would be worth as an employee is below what is legally able to be payed.

Damn, it would be so great if the government could just decree higher pay for workers, without actually having to worry about repercussions, but labour is not some how in a different playing field as anything else being bought and sold in a market. It is not exempt from the basic economic principle that artificially high prices cause surplus. This is true for meat, steel, leather, wood, anything you can name. Why in the high hell would labour be any different?

Any of that might be relevant if society hadn't agreed that government has a responsibility to make sure its constituents aren't being starved and killed by robber-barons.

[Jesus_Smith_Nandez]

In the words of Thomas Sowell, the real minimum wage is zero. This is what many inexperienced and low skilled workers are receiving right now due to legislation that makes it illegal to pay them what they are actually to an employer.

This is especially terrible when these people come from low-income, unskilled and/or minority backgrounds and urgently need to start climbing the job ladder as soon as they are able to and are prevented because what they would be worth as an employee is below what is legally able to be payed.

Damn, it would be so great if the government could just decree higher pay for workers, without actually having to worry about repercussions, but labour is not some how in a different playing field as anything else being bought and sold in a market. It is not exempt from the basic economic principle that artificially high prices cause surplus. This is true for meat, steel, leather, wood, anything you can name. Why in the high hell would labour be any different?

Any of that might be relevant if society hadn't agreed that government has a responsibility to make sure its constituents aren't being starved and killed by robber-barons.

Competitiveness in a marketplace for labour in the market place would drive up the wages of workers as well as the working conditions of these workers anyway. This is what is happening in China right now; wages are going up and working conditions are getting better because there is a shortage of labour and all of it needs to be competed for. Sadly, on our end of the scale, minimum wage and other laws putting up red tape drive the price of labour up so high that rather than there being a shortage of labour that needs to be competed for by raising wages and working conditions, there is a surplus of labour that is only being kept in place by government.

[Burinn]

In the words of Thomas Sowell, the real minimum wage is zero. This is what many inexperienced and low skilled workers are receiving right now due to legislation that makes it illegal to pay them what they are actually to an employer.

This is especially terrible when these people come from low-income, unskilled and/or minority backgrounds and urgently need to start climbing the job ladder as soon as they are able to and are prevented because what they would be worth as an employee is below what is legally able to be payed.

Damn, it would be so great if the government could just decree higher pay for workers, without actually having to worry about repercussions, but labour is not some how in a different playing field as anything else being bought and sold in a market. It is not exempt from the basic economic principle that artificially high prices cause surplus. This is true for meat, steel, leather, wood, anything you can name. Why in the high hell would labour be any different?

Any of that might be relevant if society hadn't agreed that government has a responsibility to make sure its constituents aren't being starved and killed by robber-barons.

Competitiveness in a marketplace for labour in the market place would drive up the wages of workers as well as the working conditions of these workers anyway. This is what is happening in China right now; wages are going up and working conditions are getting better because there is a shortage of labour and all of it needs to be competed for. Sadly, on our end of the scale, minimum wage and other laws putting up red tape drive the price of labour up so high that rather than there being a shortage of labour that needs to be competed for by raising wages and working conditions, there is a surplus of labour that is only being kept in place by government.

There isn't a shortage of labor in the first world. If you remove a minimum wage, people will starve, and people will die. That's not okay. You're a lunatic if you think it is.

[Burinn]

Let's revert to sharecropping, plantations, and slave labor while we're at it. Either you're horribly uneducated or an indoctrinated slime that lurks on alt-right sites all day.

[Jesus_Smith_Nandez]

You have a fallacy in your head that people are constantly stuck in the same job with the same wage and in the exact same class for the duration of their life and you're wrong. 40% of people working minimum wage right now are being supported by family and apart from that most of them live alone anyway. The vast majority of people in the bottom 20% get out of it within the span of 10 years because as they work they gain more and more skills and become worth more.

The key here is getting people onto the job ladder and gaining skills to make themselves worth more in the future, but when you keep people out of jobs by creating a surplus of labour, people never get onto the job ladder and are stuck being worth nothing as an employee, having no skills worth being hired for, and this is where we end up where we are now with a massive amount of people not working for years and living in poverty because whatever they may currently be worth to an employer is below what the government has mandated that labour should be worth through minimum wage and other work laws (insurance, safety, etc). How can you deem it OK that people will be unemployed living in poverty and yet are literally unemployable because of labour costs are artificially high?

An example of this is overtime work is on the rise in the US. It costs big business less to work their current overtime and pay them extra than it does for them to just hire more workers, and this is in a place where people are unemployed and living in poverty. Is this OK to you?

[Burinn]

You have a fallacy in your head that people are constantly stuck in the same job with the same wage and in the exact same class for the duration of their life and you're wrong. 40% of people working minimum wage right now are being supported by family and apart from that most of them live alone anyway.

The vast majority of people in the bottom 20% get out of it within the span of 10 years because as they work they gain more and more skills and become worth more. The key here is getting people onto the job ladder and gaining skills to make themselves worth more in the future, but when you keep people out of jobs by creating a surplus of labour, people never get onto the job ladder and are stuck being worth nothing as an employee, having no skills worth being hired for, and this is where we end up where we are now with a massive amount of people not working for years and living in poverty because whatever they may currently be worth to an employer is below what the government has mandated that labour should be worth through minimum wage and other work laws (insurance, safety, etc). How can you deem it OK that people will be unemployed living in poverty and yet are literally unemployable because of labour costs?

An example of this is overtime work is on the rise in the US. It costs big business less to work their current overtime and pay them extra than it does for them to just hire more workers, and this is in a place where people are unemployed and living in poverty. Is this OK to you?

You're insane. I'm happy to know that your opinion on the matter is both taken as a joke by academia as a whole and by the first world by and large.

[Burinn]

You're seriously talking about some things that are discussed in Macro 101. I suggest taking a course in it, it's some fun stuff.

[Jesus_Smith_Nandez]

Can you explain properly instead of calling me stupid and insane

[Burinn]

Can you explain properly instead of calling me stupid and insane

You're seriously talking about some things that are discussed in Macro 101. I suggest taking a course in it, it's some fun stuff.

Sure, fork over some tuition money.

[Jesus_Smith_Nandez]

Ok so you cannot explain why I'm wrong is what you're saying?