Hafen really for niche audience or it not advertise enough?

[iamahh]

i think the joys of haven are too subtle for big audiences

haven is all about the player finding its own rhythm, how much farming, breeding, crafting, cooking, eating, you going to put in

sometimes you over-farm, over-breed, takes time to find the sweet spot

big audiences don't want freedom, they want to be herd in baby steps, it's a deep pattern in modern societies

[LadyGoo]

haven is all about the player finding its own rhythm, how much farming, breeding, crafting, cooking, eating, you going to put in

If we're speaking of younger audience, they aren't really looking for farming and eating. I have tried involving totally new players by myself. The first thing they feel frustrated about is that there are no flashy arrows and obvious guidelines: they expect the game to point on the tree, show you what button to click and which option to choose, then pointing on the stone, then on your crafting panel to craft the axe. From my feeling, if the game would tutor the people from the most basic stuff, as crafting, lifting, lighting a dire, building and hunting, we would have more people drawn to it.

Nowadays, there are hundreds of games and dozens of them being released every year. People are used to good service and nice tutorials, so they feel almost offended when they see the game does not teach them anything. A game could get away with it if it would be super popular (like dota) and people would know that they would get a reward in the end.

The final problem is that the people would soon realize how weak they are. They cannot fight, murder, vandalize, siege their equals without the bigger guys arriving out of nowhere and killing them. The same applies to the people who would like to return.

[vatas]

The starting quests offer some advice, but there could be bit more without entering into "holding player's hand" -territory. I agree on your "final problem" but I don't think it can be fixed without making progression meaningless.

Back to OP topic. Big advertisement campaign would share a problem that other requested thing, a Steam release, would have. That is, you have only one first impression. It's not worth spending money to draw attention to yourself when you're not ready to be seen by mass audience. Since I brought Steam release, I'll also mention that it would probably be a bad idea. These days Steam is filled with shovelware that makes it hard to find good games and results in no reputation boost at all for having your game on Steam that would've been the case in the early days when platform was heavily curated. Valve would mostly just dip their hand in Jorbtar's pockets without giving much in return.

Expanding on my previous post on this thread, when I compare the current game to Legacy, as I remember it, Legacy feels unplayable. 2D graphics were generally fine, but in the current game (in addition to 3D graphics) the plethora of various added objects give some additional/alternative gameplay in the form of base customization compared to just grinding stats. I'd also growl at lack of stockpiles (somewhat mitigated by creative use of construction signs.) Give me Study Tables or give me death.

[Jalpha]

Going to just suggest that LadyGoo is pretty detached from the new player experience. Can confirm that within a week of starting a new character I had committed murder, raided multiple bases and an entire abandoned vilage and terrorised some hermits.

I don't think the new player really needs shiny arrows on everything. They could use a friendly advisor to ease them into the maelstrom of character management I admit. I've also never met a new player who rolled their first character and wanted to raid a defended town right away. Often they have wanted to find somebody to murder.

Probably the greatest lacking feature for the new player is a lack of other players.

I'm also going to defend the graphics by pointing out the success of project zomboid.

[Granger]

Going to just suggest that LadyGoo is pretty detached from the new player experience. Can confirm that within a week of starting a new character I had committed murder, raided multiple bases and an entire abandoned vilage and terrorised some hermits.

Which you likely didn't do out of thin air.
By this I mean witout support of an established base and preexisting deep knowledge of the game - both of which a genuine new player usually dosn't have.

[vatas]

Current graphics are definitely fine, but performance should reflect this. Instead, Haven is surprisingly resource-intensive game. Hopefully the rendering rewrite will alleviate this.

[jordancoles]

Current graphics are definitely fine, but performance should reflect this. Instead, Haven is surprisingly resource-intensive game. Hopefully the rendering rewrite will alleviate this.

The default client and the poor performance are the two main factors which hold this game back

3rd is likely the combat system

[loftar]

People are used to good service and nice tutorials, so they feel almost offended when they see the game does not teach them anything.

I have to say, if that is true, then that is somewhat depressing. I sometimes go back and play the NES Mario games, and I always find it so very nice how they just throw you immediately into the mix without diverting your attention with stories or tutorials or anything, and just let you discover them on your own. I'm well aware, of course, that those games are designed to be easy to learn on their own and that Haven maybe both lacks a bit in that department to begin with, and also arguably needs a bit more handholding owing to its greater complexity, but I absolutely resent the idea that games "should" have extensive and explicit tutorials.

[Ardennesss]

People are used to good service and nice tutorials, so they feel almost offended when they see the game does not teach them anything.

I have to say, if that is true, then that is somewhat depressing. I sometimes go back and play the NES Mario games, and I always find it so very nice how they just throw you immediately into the mix without diverting your attention with stories or tutorials or anything, and just let you discover them on your own. I'm well aware, of course, that those games are designed to be easy to learn on their own and that Haven maybe both lacks a bit in that department to begin with, and also arguably needs a bit more handholding owing to its greater complexity, but I absolutely resent the idea that games "should" have extensive and explicit tutorials.

You're entitled to your opinion, and the community as a whole is entitled to show you they disagree by quitting early into the gameplay experience. If you feel that strongly, make the tutorial optional, but Haven needs a full fledged tutorial process or to officially support the Wiki and make it clear to new players that it's encouraged that they use it.

[Jalpha]

Going to just suggest that LadyGoo is pretty detached from the new player experience. Can confirm that within a week of starting a new character I had committed murder, raided multiple bases and an entire abandoned vilage and terrorised some hermits.

Which you likely didn't do out of thin air.
By this I mean witout support of an established base and preexisting deep knowledge of the game - both of which a genuine new player usually dosn't have.

Correct. However the real issue I believe she is highlighting is a total lack of direction for the new player.

When I began my first character I knew what I wanted out of the game straight away. I sought and found the tools to get me there (forums, wiki, chatrooms). Many new players start the game not really knowing what to expect and having no real goals.

Go collect a branch and some water is a really boring introduction to the survival crafting MMO experience.