Will hafen ever be popular or did it miss its chance?

[shubla]

HnH is just not a game that you can play eternally, you will run out of things to do and get bored. Or at least most people do. Most people probably dont even want to play it for even a moment.
Reason why haven not being popular is that it is not a good game from currently popular genre. period.

[iamahh]

Haven is doing better than lots of multiplayer Steam games that disappear with zero servers and some nostalgic forum thread

once object ownership is developed there will be new interesting mechanics, and at least another w*** down the road will bring more players

[Potjeh]

Nah, making it harder just makes it more bot oriented. Hard cap everything. In my experience factions quit when they fall behind in stats and quality to the point where they can't compete in PvP (and that's very easy, because in every combat system so far ~50% higher stats win every time), and catching up is just too much grind for anyone who has a job or a social life. Especially if you're trying to catch up with botters.

Hardcaps just guarantee that people quit, what's the point of fighting for kills when there are hardcaps and you can just rebuild a capped char in 1-2 days?

It works just fine in Rust. At least their player count is orders of magnitude higher. Also, kills are not even a thing anymore, because of infinite stat growth. It's the same design pattern throughout the game - if something doesn't scale well with unlimited stats, simply nerf it out of existence (see siege for example).

[Ardennesss]

Nah, making it harder just makes it more bot oriented. Hard cap everything. In my experience factions quit when they fall behind in stats and quality to the point where they can't compete in PvP (and that's very easy, because in every combat system so far ~50% higher stats win every time), and catching up is just too much grind for anyone who has a job or a social life. Especially if you're trying to catch up with botters.

Hardcaps just guarantee that people quit, what's the point of fighting for kills when there are hardcaps and you can just rebuild a capped char in 1-2 days?

It works just fine in Rust. At least their player count is orders of magnitude higher. Also, kills are not even a thing anymore, because of infinite stat growth. It's the same design pattern throughout the game - if something doesn't scale well with unlimited stats, simply nerf it out of existence (see siege for example).

Rust was also released on a larger platform with marketing and advertisement before said release, I'm not sure that's a fair comparison.

Kills are very much still a thing, but rather difficult because of the KO mechanic that basically requires that your opponent be trapped and unable to move or vastly outnumbered/outstatted.

Sieges being non-existent seems like an unintended consequence of a change that the dev team is not 100% sure how to fix. It's obviously an issue that people don't engage in them, but given the ramifications of making sieges easier we should tread lightly. I for one did not much enjoy legacy siege mechanics and their ram check requirements, which is why my village had 4 layers of brick walls.

Even if we revert to that system, you're just going to reintroduce ram check bots. The only people the change will have an impact on are the players that don't know those exist, which are the same players that wouldn't be able to defend themselves from a siege under the current system anyway.

[shubla]

Nah, making it harder just makes it more bot oriented. Hard cap everything. In my experience factions quit when they fall behind in stats and quality to the point where they can't compete in PvP (and that's very easy, because in every combat system so far ~50% higher stats win every time), and catching up is just too much grind for anyone who has a job or a social life. Especially if you're trying to catch up with botters.

Hardcaps just guarantee that people quit, what's the point of fighting for kills when there are hardcaps and you can just rebuild a capped char in 1-2 days?

It works just fine in Rust. At least their player count is orders of magnitude higher. Also, kills are not even a thing anymore, because of infinite stat growth. It's the same design pattern throughout the game - if something doesn't scale well with unlimited stats, simply nerf it out of existence (see siege for example).

Saying that hardcaps would work in HnH because they work in some other, completely different game is just wrong!

[Potjeh]

Nah man, I'm talking about brickbashers. They got removed because as stats got higher the time to break a town went down while the potential for damage went up. Same reasoning why killing was made so hard - too easy to do with higher stats, too big of a loss because even the guy with the lower stats will still have months of hardcore grind invested. And yeah, if the ramifications of siege weren't so big (ie there wasn't infinite quality growth), then we could actually have sieges. Doesn't that sound more fun than sitting in your walls and just pushing numbers forever?

[Granger]

Saying that hardcaps would work in HnH because they work in some other, completely different game is just wrong!

Claiming that hardcaps wouldn't work in H&H because you don't like them isn't right either.

It's the same design pattern throughout the game - if something doesn't scale well with unlimited stats, simply nerf it out of existence.

I think this there is quite some truth in this: One can have balanced mechanics or unbound stats - but not both.

I think many (if not: most) who see stuff like

will simply think fuck this, I have a life and uninstall the game.

[azrid]

pro tip for you plebs just 2x long videos you'll save a lot of time in your life

[Zentetsuken]

What if stats hardcapped AND were infinite? Like mayb PVP stats could hardcap, like even at 2000 str only 200 is counted when you enter PVP. Same for stats needed in some or all crafting and farming and whatnot. 5000 farming only counts as 200 when you pick or plant. Maybe the infinite stat gain could only be utilized in PvE or maybe in some other sort of more bonus, aesthetic or other crafts that leave room for people who want bragging rights and incentive to nolife it. Best of both worlds?

[Granger]

Maybe the infinite stat gain could only be utilized in PvE or maybe in some other sort of more bonus

Would still be broken and unfun.

Where's the point in PvE in case you can relieably slaughter everything?