Which is worse, holocaust or atlantic slavetrade

[neeco]

I thought about it. Which is worse in your opinion?

This topic.

+1

[jordancoles]

who is to decide what is good and what is bad? my cat kills for pleasure and ive watched her let mice bleed to death as she watches them is she evil?

Me and yep

[MagicManICT]

To the records question:
It's been a long while since I've done any reading on this... my college years to be precise. I just recall some of the ship manifests being excerpted in side notes... and they were kept about like you'd keep a record of any other commodity. "30 bodies thrown overboard today." Compare to "Pirate attack last night. Ship damaged, but floating. 5 tonne sugar either lost to damage or thrown overboard to lighten load." How historians have come up with the figures they have are usually part of the forward or an appendix in a book. And too often, I think they've made "best guess" estimates. The records that have survived are pretty well kept. Too many records have been lost to time due to acts of man and acts of God.

good and evil is a man made concept tho.

Oh, I'm quite sure that this is the thread for it, but I won't argue that point (because I completely agree with you). The point I'd like to make is that we can't function without it yet, if we ever can. (We can get there, I think, but it would require some fundamental changes to how we treat each other.) For the present, I think that we've developed a pretty strong sense of what is "good" and "evil" based on the society we have been raised in. (What I think is up for debate is whether such things apply to all the things some people want to apply them to: sex, drugs, games/entertainment, "principles of justice," etc. Another point probably not worth picking up here... and not sure I could do a good job arguing any of it, anyway.)

There is also "severity of evil" that can be debated, which is kind of the whole point here. As far as I can see, there are three general levels. Those that hurt the self only, those that hurt the community, and those that hurt society or the world over periods of history. It's hard to separate the first two, but that's not even close to what this conversation is about. For the third, there is no ranking them. If you or your society have committed such an atrocity as that will resound for centuries to come, such as the two mentioned here, you're just as guilt as the others in the list you think you're not as bad as.

The mind fuck is that we as a species need these sort of things to learn and grow from. Then, when we've grown a bit as a result of such atrocities, can we really call them completely evil?

I, too, have a cat. Those are some vicious little creatures. Mine will just drop a mouse into a box and let it scurry around... not kill it, not even really physically injure it. Just use it as a play toy*. Last one I found had clearly been in there a while as there were too many scratch marks and chew holes of it trying to escape. Dogs aren't any better before any of you dog people go thinking you have the superior pet. Anyway, the debate between "being human" and "being animal" is probably way deeper than anyone wants to go here, and there are a ton of great books on the matter. Might be worth it as sometimes I wonder about the motivations behind some of the atrocities of the world.

*worth noting that hungry animals don't play with their food. they just kill and eat.

[shubla]

Cats are literally worse than Hitler.
Hitler killed because he wanted to make the world a better place.
Cats kill and torture because its fun.

[Jalpha]

The cat is just another entity like ourselves.

Struggling (or not) to overcome its instincts.

[Zentetsuken]

The cat is just another entity like ourselves.

Struggling (or not) to overcome its instincts.

Yeah, I suspect that you're probably one of the only people around here that can identify with struggling against an instinctual urge to kill.

I can personally and confidently say that I am nothing like a cat in this respect.

[Jalpha]

You're still an animal. Being more human than a cat isn't much to boast about.

[MagicManICT]

Yeah, I suspect that you're probably one of the only people around here that can identify with struggling against an instinctual urge to kill.

As a moderator and long time user of this forum... I can definitely say you are quite wrong. For the most part, those people are no longer welcome here. But we're not Facebook, so we don't have to deal with all the crazies of the world.

[ricky]

I'd say the Holocaust was worse in what it could have become - in only 5-6 years the death toll of WW2 and the Holocaust far surpassed any other conflict we've seen.

The slave trade however was a systemic, generational oppression of a people. Death tolls won't compare well due to the sheer length of it's activity.

At the end of the day the USA ended both of them though

[Trappin]

Oh, yeah baby! This thread is chock-fulla Euro loony tune crazy brain stuff. Kicks off with our favorite Finnish Nationaist-Socialist-Eurasianist and her idiotic troll bait posts. Granger leaps with the 911-Riechstag Fire conspiracy theory. When will those stupid fucking Yankees wake up? He's got it all figured out on spreadsheets. God I hate those stupid Americans! BUSH AMERICA HITLER SOMETHING SOMETHING JET FUEL AND BUILDING #3! And fire doesn't melt steel!HASHTAG GIF KRUPP!

Then some other kook drops the "the Jews died because the allies strafed and bombed Nazi railways." Ipso facto the Jews didn't get their sumptuous 1800 calorie a day reinheitsgebot ale, lamb and sauerkraut luncheon at Sobibór so they starved to death. Pathetic. Then again it's hard to fucking eat when your face is on fire after being stuffed into a Topf and Sons (GmbH) crematorium oven. That same lie is told by 4th way Rus-Euro chuckleheads, but they swap out the food strawman for coal. It goes like this; can't power the ovens without coal, the allies bombed the railways leading to the HappyJewPlayground Camps; so there was no coal to fuel the crematoriums; so no one was burned or gassed or something. They always end with the "PROVE ME WRONG" shtick. It must be in the holocaust denier pamphlets handed out at Kill Switch concerts in Portland, Bonn, Helsinki and Moscow.

One film proves them wrong. A French film. Shoah



The man leaning out of the train window in the poster? Yeah. He's one of the brakeman that delivered Jews and coal to Sobibór.