Why Triple Quality was bad. Discussion.

General discussion and socializing.

Re: Why Triple Quality was bad. Discussion.

Postby Jalpha » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:10 pm

It's not inherantly a bad system, quite the opposite. I am sure the devs will return to it.

The issue seemed to be that it sits on top of other systems. These other systems are still too unstable to further complicate with trivariance at this stage.

Additionally there was insufficient support architecture in place for trivariance from the perspective of the player. I mean insufficient ability to manipulate the values.

I like trivariance and I'm sure the devs do too. I'm just parroting my recollection of their past statements mixed with opinions of mine. There's a lot of potential in it.
Laying flat.
User avatar
Jalpha
Under curfew
 
Posts: 1841
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:16 pm

Re: Why Triple Quality was bad. Discussion.

Postby Granger » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:21 am

Jalpha wrote:It's not inherantly a bad system, quite the opposite. I am sure the devs will return to it.

IMHO it was neither good nor fun, should not make a return. Too convoluted to be fun, item stacking was a nightmare.
⁎ Mon Mar 22, 2010 ✝ Thu Jan 23, 2020
User avatar
Granger
 
Posts: 9254
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:00 pm

Re: Why Triple Quality was bad. Discussion.

Postby Zentetsuken » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:08 am

Granger wrote:
Jalpha wrote:It's not inherantly a bad system, quite the opposite. I am sure the devs will return to it.

IMHO it was neither good nor fun, should not make a return. Too convoluted to be fun, item stacking was a nightmare.


Item stacking was definitely an issue but I'll give the general player base the benefit of the doubt and assume that adding 2 additional qualities to each item wasn't the tipping point that simply made the game too convoluted to be enjoyable. I think that having so many additional defendable and claimable resources spread through out the world made the game more fun for more people and added a lot of needed strategy in the very simple spiraling of qualities AND trading AND the idea of where people should be building and what they should be fighting for. Instead of the 3-4 points on the map for best clay and water being known and dominated by their respective empires by mid-world there might be 20+ points of interest across the world that are worthwhile for different reasons.
      Image
      Image
JOIN THE OFFICIAL H&H DISCORD TODAY

♰ PROUD FORUM MODERATOR 02.01.2024 - 05.10.2024 ♰
User avatar
Zentetsuken
 
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: Flavor Town

Re: Why Triple Quality was bad. Discussion.

Postby MightySheep » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:47 am

Granger wrote:
Jalpha wrote:It's not inherantly a bad system, quite the opposite. I am sure the devs will return to it.

IMHO it was neither good nor fun, should not make a return. Too convoluted to be fun, item stacking was a nightmare.

I agree it was convoluted; added complexity for no reason.

i don't mind a complex system if it's interesting but this was simply dull and unnecessary.
User avatar
MightySheep
 
Posts: 2153
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:18 pm

Re: Why Triple Quality was bad. Discussion.

Postby MadNomad » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:52 am

because my mind Isn't able to find out what the fuck these weird numbers mean
MadNomad
 
Posts: 2158
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:13 pm

Re: Why Triple Quality was bad. Discussion.

Postby shubla » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:41 pm

Triple quality had no point. In some items, some quality aspects were useles, and some op. The quality system is already quite complicated. Adding three different numbers does not help!
Image
I'm not sure that I have a strong argument against sketch colors - Jorb, November 2019
http://i.imgur.com/CRrirds.png?1
Join the moderated unofficial discord for the game! https://discord.gg/2TAbGj2
Purus Pasta, The Best Client
User avatar
shubla
 
Posts: 13041
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:26 am
Location: Finland

Re: Why Triple Quality was bad. Discussion.

Postby Scilly_guy » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:30 am

I was excited by the prospect of TriQ but felt the devs had let themselves down as it hadn't been well implemented. As others say, it wasn't balanced and wasn't meaningful enough.

I would certainly like to see some more experiments with quality of varying aspects. For example seeds/crops could have a growth speed "quality" where lower is better (perhaps meaning grows twice as fast, the fact lower is better is a clear representation that the stat is capped, at least capped in how good it can be but not how bad). As well as the crop having a quality like normal, and perhaps a quantity "quality" which results in increased chances of getting a bonus yield.
Scilly_guy
 
Posts: 332
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:32 pm

Re: Why Triple Quality was bad. Discussion.

Postby Kaios » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:26 pm

If my recollection serves me well there were at least three main reasons for doing away with tri-quality, the first being that only the average of all 3 qualities had any impact in crafting and I believe attempts to change the "average" method in terms of crafting did not go over well. Second, trying to locate any resource node of decent quality was made significantly more difficult because of the fact that most high level quality nodes ended up with something like 20/80/20 which is still no better than an average quality 40 node. And third it was just confusing especially with regards to animal breeding, there appeared to be very little rhyme or reason behind the qualities of animals being bred and the qualities produced or at the very least this only served to prolong the breeding and farming processes.

Those are the main reasons in my opinion but certainly there are some others that I just can't think of at the moment.
User avatar
Kaios
 
Posts: 9171
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Why Triple Quality was bad. Discussion.

Postby banok » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:38 am

complex? niggas pls it was bad because it was too simple. higher numbers was always better.

if higher value meant either a negative or positive effect depending on say industry or crop type, then shit would get complex and mean something,

for example your soil is 15, 45, 30. each number has a positive or negative effect changing from crop to crop, with lower number being more neutral. lets say for carrots the first number is neg, the second is positive, the third is neutral, then this soil is ideal for carrots. but if for barley the first is positive the second is neutral and the third is negative then your barely shrivels up and dies.

instantly no soil is the same, no soil is inherently better than another. it would require serious testing to figure whats best.

it may be a terrible suggestion but sadomasochist J&L are getting a semi reading this post.
User avatar
banok
 
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:59 am
Location: Homeless by choice

Re: Why Triple Quality was bad. Discussion.

Postby jorb » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:59 am

MightySheep wrote:I agree it was convoluted; added complexity for no reason.

i don't mind a complex system if it's interesting but this was simply dull and unnecessary.


Pretty much.
"The psychological trials of dwellers in the last times will be equal to the physical trials of the martyrs. In order to face these trials we must be living in a different world."

-- Hieromonk Seraphim Rose
User avatar
jorb
 
Posts: 18437
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:07 am
Location: Here, there and everywhere.

PreviousNext

Return to The Inn of Brodgar

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Claude [Bot], Semrush [Bot] and 19 guests