Developer stance on real money transactions.

[Vassteel]

You selling hats for tokens or for cash? If the former, no. The latter? Maybe you shouldn't risk it, then.

To note: a game token is an in game item that can be kept safe in your hearth. Once you bring it out, it's a game object just like everything else that can be traded, stolen, lost, or destroyed just like anything else. It no longer has cash value because there is no way to exchange it (through Seatribe) for money.

it still retains a cash value. through pay pal. people will resell regardless of the developers stance. that what resellers do.

i fell that jorb used the incorrect legalese when making the post. its not allowed on the forum and by that definition its allowed anywhere else.

[MagicManICT]

it still retains a cash value. through pay pal. people will resell regardless of the developers stance. that what resellers do.

There's a difference between "market" and "aftermarket" values. The value of a sub token is only what it can earn you in game: one month of subscription time to Haven and Hearth, and has a huge potential of loss given it's a software product relying on a server that could fail for a wide variety of reasons. That is "market value" What people put value on outside the game is on them, and is "aftermarket" value. Some fool bought a burned piece of toast for several thousand dollars because it looked like Jesus Christ. Ebay is full of such fools. Certain copies of a Black Lotus from Magic: the Gathering has a 5 figure aftermarket value now (or close to it).

You've been given an answer, and jorb isn't going to pop in here and say anything other than already posted, which was conveniently linked at the top of the thread. Do what you will, but if things go sour, you have no legal recourse. Don't expect help from jorbtar.

[VDZ]

Certain copies of a Black Lotus from Magic: the Gathering has a 5 figure aftermarket value now (or close to it).

You've been given an answer, and jorb isn't going to pop in here and say anything other than already posted, which was conveniently linked at the top of the thread. Do what you will, but if things go sour, you have no legal recourse. Don't expect help from jorbtar.

This contradicts what you implied earlier, that people would actively get banned by the devs if caught doing RMT. I'm well aware I have zero protection. I just want to know that the devs aren't going to ban me for it.

[MagicManICT]

This contradicts what you implied earlier, that people would actively get banned by the devs if caught doing RMT.

No, it doesn't. In the one case I could point at, I can't even be 100% sure that the player had gotten accounts banned for the RMT actions and not some other issues. I'm only aware that RMT was an issue because it spilled over into forum moderation and some other public chat channels. There's one or two other instances where I heard rumors from players. Then there are the older cases I'd really have to dig for (days of reading through old forum posts) where players have had accounts locked simply for causing issues via account sharing. Yet I hear from other players that they sell certain hats for way more than I'd be willing to pay for such things, even if I did have the money to throw around.

You can't control what the other person does. Either trust your trade partners, or don't participate, or be willing to take said risks. I wish I could point at a definitive answer for you. The stance on it has been made as clear as it's going to be made, I think.

Again, if you want to trade hats and such for tokens, that's fine. If you want to sell anything for an aftermarket value, then it's your risk. I'm not going to promise you an account won't get banned, precisely because I can't. I don't have that level of decision making, and if I did, I'd probably knock more heads than already have been. The best I can do is try to point you at previous history that has gotten around, and it might be hard to draw any definitive conclusion. I'm going to lean people towards just the opposite like I feel I've been trying to do since I posted in this thread: it's not worth the headache.

Black Lotus listing

It's been a few years since I looked. I feel regret for liquidating mine when I quit playing Magic at a competitive level. Now you went and posted it.

[shubla]

Everyone knows that there is plenty of RMT going on in HnH. (And many other games.)
If there was a way to stop it, I am sure that devs would do it.
But, there is not.
There is literally no way to prevent people from RMT other than kindly asking them not to.

Its kind of same as the botting is. Devs probably don't like that it happens. But they cannot really stop it. Even big games (EVE online, WoW, etc.) which have lots of money to use for preventing rmt and botting are unable to do it. So you can't really except such a small company as seatribe to be able to do anything about it.

edit: and by rmt I mean stuff like buying pearls by sending money to somebody on paypal, instead of tokens (which devs would get money from)

[jock]

Whats not talked about didn't happen

Devs have enough on their plate with getting stable servers. You giving some guy enough to buy a coffee for something isn't a top prioity.

Prevention of RMT is a silly idea almost as silly as trying to stop bots. They don't try stop them, what does that say about RMT

Move along folks nothing to see here.

[MagicManICT]

Whats not talked about didn't happen

As much as I hate to encourage it, This ^^. If both parties are discrete, there's not a lot of risk unless the devs do implement a means to catch it or discourage it. WoW and EVE devs/customer service both actively track known sites and accounts and will swing at otherwise legitimate customers that get caught up in means to launder money earned through botting, rmt, or otherwise "against the rules."

[VDZ]

Black Lotus listing

It's been a few years since I looked. I feel regret for liquidating mine when I quit playing Magic at a competitive level. Now you went and posted it.

To be fair, that was a peak quality Alpha Black Lotus. "Normal" Black Lotuses don't fetch that high a price; this is the most expensive one sold so far.

I'm not going to promise you an account won't get banned, precisely because I can't. I don't have that level of decision making, and if I did, I'd probably knock more heads than already have been. The best I can do is try to point you at previous history that has gotten around, and it might be hard to draw any definitive conclusion.

Which is precisely why I want the devs to confirm or deny. A "nope, we may ban you if you RMT" would be fine, it would just be a dick move to only imply it's fine as per OP's quotes and then end up banning people anyways.

[jorb]

We don't like RMT much, and reserve all rights. I usually, however, have better things to do than care about it.

[VDZ]

We don't like RMT much, and reserve all rights.

All right, I'll take that as a clear 'no' then. Thanks.