Haven player numbers graphed

[Zentetsuken]

On ~215 day, players stop leaving. Stable number of players is playing (around 150-200). Means world is dead.

How do we know if players stop leaving or if the number of players casually leaving is even to the number of players casually starting?


I don't think this game needs anything more than a set of longterm goals built in to the foundation of it, like a typical mmo achievement/season system.

something that the devs can build upon for years to come that adds longevity to each world and gives a reason for people to continually log in.

goals/achievements as simple as - " kill 1000 foxes in w14 to receive exclusive bright orange fox cape"

[noindyfikator]

On ~215 day, players stop leaving. Stable number of players is playing (around 150-200). Means world is dead.

How do we know if players stop leaving or if the number of players casually leaving is even to the number of players casually starting?


I don't think this game needs anything more than a set of longterm goals built in to the foundation of it, like a typical mmo achievement/season system.

something that the devs can build upon for years to come that adds longevity to each world and gives a reason for people to continually log in.

goals/achievements as simple as - " kill 1000 foxes in w14 to receive exclusive bright orange fox cape"

Do you think going into forest and killing 1000 foxes is definition of fun? That's 0 gameplay, Tetris would be more funny than doing such things.
After killing 20 mammoths I have enough Mammoth hunting for next month, because it's over and over the same experience. There should be other aspects of the game for that.

[Zentetsuken]

On ~215 day, players stop leaving. Stable number of players is playing (around 150-200). Means world is dead.

How do we know if players stop leaving or if the number of players casually leaving is even to the number of players casually starting?


I don't think this game needs anything more than a set of longterm goals built in to the foundation of it, like a typical mmo achievement/season system.

something that the devs can build upon for years to come that adds longevity to each world and gives a reason for people to continually log in.

goals/achievements as simple as - " kill 1000 foxes in w14 to receive exclusive bright orange fox cape"

Do you think going into forest and killing 1000 foxes is definition of fun? That's 0 gameplay, Tetris would be more funny than doing such things.
After killing 20 mammoths I have enough Mammoth hunting for next month, because it's over and over the same experience. There should be other aspects of the game for that.

the entire game is based on grinding menial tasks, at the very least the idea of achievements that reward the menial labour you would be doing anyways (and pushing you to keep doing it) would be pretty on theme.

I would absolutely kill 1000 foxes to get an exclusive permanent hearth-fireable cosmetic

although, this is just a base example of what achievements could be, there could even be timed events with smaller and less silly requirements that arbitrarily pop up over the course of the world and offer similar rewards

the fear of missing out on trophies will keep people logging in

[wonder-ass]

It's almost as if this game doesn't have enough content to continue for longer than 4/5 months. a never ending world sounds cool but I doubt it'll ever reach that stage, wipes are healthy use them.

[Nightdawg]

are you talking about client crashes?

Yes.

[noindyfikator]

are you talking about client crashes?

Yes.

I thought it's a PvP feature not a bug

[VDZ]

the entire game is based on grinding menial tasks, at the very least the idea of achievements that reward the menial labour you would be doing anyways (and pushing you to keep doing it) would be pretty on theme.

No, the endgame is based on grinding menial tasks. That's why people quit over time. Early on, you always have tons of different things you can do that all provide meaningful progress. It's not until later on that you start to just repeat the same tasks endlessly with little variety to get some gradual improvement because nothing else provides any meaningful progression. They're already retaining the players that get excited from having their carrots grow from q90 to q95. The problem is retaining the players not entertained by menial tasks.

[Zentetsuken]

No, the endgame is based on grinding menial tasks. That's why people quit over time.
Early on, you always have tons of different things you can do that all provide meaningful progress. It's not until later on that you start to just repeat the same tasks endlessly with little variety to get some gradual improvement because nothing else provides any meaningful progression. They're already retaining the players that get excited from having their carrots grow from q90 to q95. The problem is retaining the players not entertained by menial tasks.

Okay, I agree. People quit because the endgame, the entire rest of the game that happens like 2 months of casual effort after the day you start, is just grinding numbers higher.

While I agree that the entire game should be fundamentally changed with some dramatic and huge overhaul that addresses this, I am trying to be realistic. I don't think any of us really believe that they are going to disassemble the foundation of this game and practically start anew with something different.

That being said, I think that in some ways, a menial and endless grind is sort of similar to other mmos. Once you hit max level you are basically grinding for achievements and super extra good special gear. Since I don't think that adding more nolife effort and botting = you are better than other people scenarios to the game would be good, I am suggesting achievements.

Pair endless menial grinding with FOMO.

Grind endlessly all through w14, just as some people do anyways, but now with the extra incentive of knowing that you will have a load of trophies to commemorate your having done it. Trophies that can only have been obtained in that world, during certain times of that world, that are permanent, non-tradeable and look cool.

Will this be enough to get everybody to stay longer? Certainly not.
Will this be enough to get some people to stay longer? Probably maybe?

If this game carries on in the same direction for another 5 years I would certainly think it's neat to be able to show off special aesthetic gear that were only available during special events and for special achievements from today. That's all this game is about in the end anyways, isn't it? A big old dickwave?

[weshesh]

On ~215 day, players stop leaving. Stable number of players is playing (around 150-200). Means world is dead.

Means the game needs something to cause an increase in awareness and to attract players before then.

@everyone: Maybe compare this graph to games that have release cycles and player decay.

Steamcharts has decent player data. Most of the top games seem to have fairly steady player numbers and are not affected by release cycles. Most single player games seem to follow exponential decay and never recover. HOI4 has release peaks but an overall positive trend. https://steamcharts.com/app/394360#All

The login counter is per account not per IP. This dataset is worth a lot less than you're giving it credit for

Login numbers are useful for comparing between worlds and exploring long term trends. Of course unique account or unique IP numbers would be better but I do not have access to those.

[Pommfritz]

I actually remember when I was new to the game and knew nothing about it, the game was actually really good and provided a ton of adventures. Got a wound? you'd spend a few hours figuring out to heal it. I can't recall most of it but every day I'd log in and had something I wanted to do or things I had to figure out got thrown at me and everytime you'd go on an hour long adventure to figure it out. Imo that was a ton of fun even tho it provided not much progress in most cases. Other games litterally have to force quests upon you to achieve this, in hnh this occurs very naturally for a new player and I think it's great.
Once those things become trivial tho and become a timegate (wounds, quality grind, feasting etc), it turns into a repetitive grind that can burn you out and the more you get into it the more you realise how broken some systems are and that makes people frustrated/angry.
So idk exactly what my point is but hnh has some great things going for it and only 2 devs that only have 4 eyes and 24 hours per day