Well it was a good run.

[BigCountry]

That's what happens when you refuse to put in even a modicum of effort towards managing your community. It deserves to be rated worse.

+1

It's unfortunate but it is what it is.

[Grog]

I remember responding to a negative review about murder hobos with "Yea the game does a poor job of telling you how to stay safe, but it used to be much worse."

"He can be really nice if you know how to behave."
"He's been worse."
We truly are in a toxic relationship with this game, aren't we?

It's nice JLo actually get to see some feedback they can't ignore on this, though I'm positivly surprised it took this long.

+ 1
To everything that was written here.

On the Rust discussion:
Rust doesn't have cutesy peaceful farmville videos advertising for it. Haven has.

[Okocim]

In Rust combat is good and easy to get into, in Haven combat is complicated and poorly designed.
In rust you Risk what? few hours of grinding for gear and if you stock up you can be back in combat seconds after death, in haven you lose hours in gear, lock your character behind day or 2 of healing and in case of actual death, week of restoring a combat character with extra tedium required in form of ancestral.
In rust you actively look for pvp opportunities, in haven in most cases you look for ways to avoid them.
Rust is pvp focused game, but still have PvE servers for people that prefer that. In haven majority of players don't want to engage in pvp, but don't have the opt-out option.

Lack of moderation is one of the main concerns and with J&L seemingly distancing themselves from their own game, community is just getting worse since most people are not willing to argue with forum/discord trolls and are avoiding it.
Steam forum will probably turn to be similarly toxic with time, for now influx of fresh players keeps it somewhat civil.

[SnuggleSnail]

Replacing an average gear set takes less effort/time than replacing an AK set in rust.
Haven combat is very poorly tutorialized, but extremely easy to get into with any guidance. Like, a group of new players could practice in valhalla for a week and have a realistic chance at being the best 5v5 team in the game. You spend 100 hours on rust practice servers and you're still going to be dogwater unless you have thousands of hours of experience in a comparable game.

The emotion behind your criticism might be a valid criticism in and of itself, like maybe the game does a bad job at making people overcome their loss aversion bias, but the actual 'problems' you've identified are demonstrably wrong.

[Skrain]

Replacing an average gear set takes less effort/time than replacing an AK set in rust.
Haven combat is very poorly tutorialized, but extremely easy to get into with any guidance. Like, a group of new players could practice in valhalla for a week and have a realistic chance at being the best 5v5 team in the game. You spend 100 hours on rust practice servers and you're still going to be dogwater unless you have thousands of hours of experience in a comparable game.

The emotion behind your criticism might be a valid criticism in and of itself, like maybe the game does a bad job at making people overcome their loss aversion bias, but the actual 'problems' you've identified are demonstrably wrong.

Yeah this post is 100% bullshit. Nothing Snail says here is meaningful in any capacity. This is just a prime example of how people like Snail, actually lead to the current point we're stuck in.

"Replacing an average gear set takes less effort/time than replacing an AK set in rust."

If you're already a well established long term player yes replacing most things will be easy, but in a thread talking about NEWER players, this is a completely meaningless and genuinely braindead take. It doesn't matter that people like us who have been playing for ten years can crawl back from a loss. Its about how bad the system is for NEW players, and people who don't have a ton of alts, or bots, or years and years of meta knowledge.

"group of new players could practice in valhalla for a week and have a realistic chance at being the best 5v5 team in the game."

Also a completely stupid point to bring up because skill is meaningless in Haven. They'll never catch to the curve in materials or stats so no, they wouldn't have a chance at being "the best 5v5". No new players are gonna catch up after a worlds been up for two months.

"but the actual 'problems' you've identified are demonstrably wrong."

And your post is demonstrably biased toward well established, skilled,non new players, and you completely fail to see that everything you just said really does prove how out of touch you are. Who gives a shit how easy it is for us 10+ year long players, thats not the topic at hand.


I'll preempt your retarded rebuttable too, Snail, like a low skilled player he is, is talking from the perspective of a cheater(you are) who bots, his experience with PVP is as follows.
Wander out of your cuck Safe Pally looking for new players, kill new players go home. If this is changed its because he ran into someone who can fight and gets killed, but because his base is safe, he can claim he lost nothing and that new players are dumb for saying its hard to rebuild.

When in reality, the majority of PvP from new players perspective are totally different, it almost always results in a character death with no body, or a pillaged claim with no infrastructure to go back to.

[DDDsDD999]

The game requires tons of hours and a decently sized group to be able to PVP, otherwise you get steamrolled by people with higher quality/stats. And PVP is irrelevant to the gameplay (until another players makes it relevant). So majority of players resign themselves to be prey, and then get their shit rocked at some point.

The game's combat and surrounding systems could be made more accessible, more intuitive, more rewarding. But the devs don't seem particularly interested in changing anything. Or interested in general, they seem to lack any real vision for what the game should be. They just randomly change things with no regard for how it affects how the game plays, then leave it abandoned for months at a time.

I know they've said they want to rework combat, but I doubt they care enough to even understand how a combat system should function. The one we've arrived at only functions after years of critique from players, and it still breaks frequently (winter, water, horses, etc).

[Grog]

a group of new players [...] valhalla

LMAO

[Potjeh]

It's not very likely to do so, but in Rust I have on occasion managed to eoka a full kit guy. GL doing the equivalent in Haven. Also FPS combat is just inherently more fun than RPG combat, and Haven has a a really shit combat system even by RPG standards. Like half the combat in your standard RPG is coordinating with a team to make the most use of different class synergies, and we don't even have classes here. Hell, we barely even have different viable loadouts cause B12 is just objectively the best.

But personally I've quit due to reasons that have nothing to do with combat. There's just too many chores that you have to do pretty much daily, and the only reward you get for it is numbers going up which just doesn't feel satisfying to me.

[SnuggleSnail]

Ye, it's too much effort to make an anvil. I think most people agree, probably 10% of my entire point count is about that. Still, that's not what Okocim criticized, what he criticized was REPLACING gear lost to PVP, which is trivial for how infrequently you should expect to get KOed.

If you're trying to fix a pain point it's kindof important to understand what the actual problem is explicitly, not complain about random adjacent things that if changed would still not fix the problem. It's funi we prolly agree on most points, but you're gonna intentionally interpret everything in the silliest way possible because angee

[SnuggleSnail]

It's not very likely to do so, but in Rust I have on occasion managed to eoka a full kit guy. GL doing the equivalent in Haven.

I have full killed top stated chars with gaytraps using only chars in bplates with nearly no stats. I've seen top stated early world fighters drowned by fresh alts on dugouts. People love to not even try then say it's impossible. The people not even wanting to try part is the problem. Fix that.

edit: also I sit around big villages on this char regularly and semi-often kill pretty high stated crafters or fighters who just run and don't try to fight back at all lol