Meanwhile - in world 16

[Zachary09]

~~ post above ~~

What you're talking about was already implemented at Green Temptations, and the place unfortunately got abandoned.

If you intend to have such a place as you mentioned, you'd need to upkeep it with a functioning village idol. Nothing stops you from creating several pclaimed stalls at a local thingwall, but you will constantly lose the stalls & get raided otherwise - people will try to gank everybody trying to trade there on sight.

As such, the place would require a fully functional village with a protected charterstone behind visitor gates - this is the only safe method of trading currently existing. Even if you agree not to attack people there, you still run the risk of someone backstabbing someone, and then the whole scheme collapses on itself.

There are only 2 solutions:

1. A civil undertaking where absolutely nobody gets attacked, with perhaps permanent militia (impossible due to the nature of this game);
2. Green Temptations style market with a charterstone and stalls assigned by the owner.

Personally, I'd choose 2, but as I stated before, it absolutely will get sieged down.

[GoodGriefWhatARelief]

What you're talking about was already implemented at Green Temptations, and the place unfortunately got abandoned.

Right, the place was supposed to be a community market, but now that the owner has gone missing, the community is not able to use it anymore. Any idea how to avoid this in the future? I mean, everything dies in time, of course, but how to make the fair 'outlive' its original builders?

I suppose we could build pclaims and vclaims around the original market, so if one part of it becomes inactive, people would still have a known meeting place and trading spot. Should we build close to the defunct Green Temptations market maybe, to maintain continuity? Near a Thingwall of a province it was in?

Anyways, I think everyone agrees on basic things that trade must flow, and that it is an essential part of the game. You know this stuff (I see you have run a shop before), so I'd appreciate if you take the leadership and get the thing rolling!

And raiders gonna raid, one can only try to fight back and control losses.

[Zachary09]

(...)I'd appreciate if you take the leadership and get the thing rolling!(...)

I'd rather not, because the place will get raided and leveled to the ground within days of announcing it exists. I promise you it will happen, so without significant military backing from several factions this is just a waste of my time.

[GoodGriefWhatARelief]

Right, I totally understand the security concerns. Maybe it is indeed unwise to publicly share the location of the market.

How about another idea, a closed marketplace for the selected few? New participants will be invited by members and vetted by a general vote before being admitted and shared any secrets. The market itself can be built in remote location, people won't be able to exit its encampment, only teleport out, so that location will be kept secret (well at least it will make it harder to locate). We should have a dedicated trade chat for members in Discord. Every member can set up a shop in the market.

For maintaining continuity, when the current "market leader" (lol?) goes inactive, another one is promoted from the current list of members by the general vote. It is up to the previous leader to make sure that no goods are lost before stepping down.
The new leader either inherits the previous market grounds or builds a new place elsewhere, selecting trusted members to help with work.

Just imagine how much potential for drama it has, we can never have enough drama in H&H haha

What do you think?

[Zachary09]

Make one, I might join

[GoodGriefWhatARelief]

Sure, I got the mats already, and I am very curious how this would work, the idea is very interesting. Need to figure out some technical details, like assigning stalls to other players, to avoid pitfalls and noob traps

[Zachary09]

Sure, I got the mats already, and I am very curious how this would work, the idea is very interesting. Need to figure out some technical details, like assigning stalls to other players, to avoid pitfalls and noob traps

You need a safe area for storage for players to utilize. Owners of stalls should have access to this area, and this area should be given to others on a per player basis. In most cases access to these areas was governed by pclaims (such as in Green Temptations). An argument could be made that a set of airlocks could suffice, where a player would simply be given a key to his set of gates. This would greatly reduce upkeep, because you suddenly don't have 40+ personal claims to upkeep.

Other than that, the place most likely should already come pre-built with several stalls that players could take over as soon as they arrive to the market. I'm not sure how stall ownership works, but perhaps they were pclaimed in order to retake them from inactive players.

Once a player takes over a stall he can now proceed the usual way - cupboards, taking and giving hands, setting up prices, et cetera.

One other thing is considering what the currency should be, how limited it would be and so on. You can for example choose to mint a finite amount of coins and call it a day, but that will inevitably cause some hoarders to come in, so you'd need to regulate or else you'll face deflation.

In the past one of the markets, Community Fair, had a really nice weekly (or was it biweekly?) event schedule - some public challenges/games were made and everyone who participated was able to win some prizes - mostly coins from the market owners. This kind of activity livens the market up and provides players with a reason to visit the market and conduct trade.

[GoodGriefWhatARelief]

You need a safe area for storage for players to utilize. Owners of stalls should have access to this area, and this area should be given to others on a per player basis. In most cases access to these areas was governed by pclaims (such as in Green Temptations). An argument could be made that a set of airlocks could suffice, where a player would simply be given a key to his set of gates. This would greatly reduce upkeep, because you suddenly don't have 40+ personal claims to upkeep.

Other than that, the place most likely should already come pre-built with several stalls that players could take over as soon as they arrive to the market. I'm not sure how stall ownership works, but perhaps they were pclaimed in order to retake them from inactive players.

Once a player takes over a stall he can now proceed the usual way - cupboards, taking and giving hands, setting up prices, et cetera.

One other thing is considering what the currency should be, how limited it would be and so on. You can for example choose to mint a finite amount of coins and call it a day, but that will inevitably cause some hoarders to come in, so you'd need to regulate or else you'll face deflation.

In the past one of the markets, Community Fair, had a really nice weekly (or was it biweekly?) event schedule - some public challenges/games were made and everyone who participated was able to win some prizes - mostly coins from the market owners. This kind of activity livens the market up and provides players with a reason to visit the market and conduct trade.

Thanks for the tips!
Instead of pclaims for each participant, I think everyone's trade alt should be made a member of the market village, and given a modest private area with a stone hut surrounded by own palisade walls, like you said. This would ensure safety, (gates cannot be picked), and provide plenty of space for storing animals and large items, ready for trade. Locks are installed by members themselves.
This will be democratically-governed enterprise with a trade chat. We could vote on all issues including relocation of the market, assigning leadership and changing rules.

The chat would also serve as an early warning system, so in case of the siege everyone would have time to evacuate the goods.I am thinking that people would be inclined to gang up vs offenders to protect their trade interests.

Chat would naturally spark various ideas, events and of course, drama on which we feed
For the success of the enterprise, we would need to build some trust for the idea. I decided to take the risk and build the market right beside my pclaim, so anyone would know where to find me haha. This is also very convenient in many ways.

Regarding access to the place, I decided that it should still be accessible from water (not just via teleporting in and out), becase people need a way to trade in their loot in bulk, and it is more fun. This way we will have walk-in customers, too.

Idk about currency, I haven't mined out a single piece of silver yet to be honest.
I guess we could decide when to mint and how much by voting.

Edit:
In regards to design, I have the following ideas.
1. Public events zone with community center (simple stonestead for starters) and chartertone. Bins for giveways and charitable donations.
2. Zone for public amenities and workstations, built by the members.
3. Port area with a few dedicated spots for temporary storage of bulk goods, useful for people living in the vicinity of the market. Can be booked in trade chat.
4. A couple of designated spots for pending trades in livestock and bulk goods, can be booked.
5. Galleria/Main market street with stalls. Only this area will be open to non-members for safety reasons.
6. Walled private plots of members (no pclaims, security is ensured with gate keys and transparency of the organization, membership in the village and vigilance, of course.

I guess plots for 10 members would be sufficient for starters, it's hell of a lot of work as it is. The whole area will be surrounded by double palisade wall, and every zone will be additionally walled.