The end of the Universe

[Reyajh]

We are imperfect beings, struggling to formulate a description of a complex creation beyond our comprehension... We can never succeed.
Just look at the devolution of this thread... Brought on primarily by Onep. First of all we have already created many things that have left this mote of dust and one is even nearing the edge of the entire solar system... What amazes me is how most people like that talk of how likely it is that life is all over the universe but can't imagine that one of those beings arose before all the others tho He says He never arose. Because we can't comprehend it doesn't make it so or not so one iota... The Drake Equation is so full of gaps and holes that you can get whatever result you want out of it based on the many assumptions that must be made based on current understanding... Professing themselves to be wise they became fools... Romans 1:22.

All of this talk about is this or that really there when nobody looks (The moon? lol.) is just folly. In the very least the information is there... There is energy there. That energy has taken a form that is OBSERVED in reality... It is coupled in a way that creates an object we call the moon. Can it become decoupled? Well, without uncertainty, certainly! Is it pliable? Surely. Is it possible that there is a force outside of our current comprehension at work upon its constituent particles be they wave field energy, what form in nature have you? Of course and highly likely. I believe that it is that force that causes everything to take on the properties that we observe. But I am certain that it is more complex than that.
We CAN however say, with certainty, that it IS there where it was before we measured it, when we are not looking (In whatever form) and as soon as we look it will most likely with an extremely high sense of certainty, take on the form we observe, or not, but regardless, be there tomorrow, as it was yesterday, going back to as far as we are able to comprehend... And forward barring some unforeseen cosmological catastrophe outside of our ability to manipulate. We are not seeing the whole picture here . We can only continue to plow forward, searching for answers, plant the seeds, that spread this wonderfully imperfect disease.
Else, just leave it blowing in the breeze.

[sMartins]

is just folly

I perfectly understand your point of you and I can also agree, pretty much ... but I think you are just lacking a bit on the perspective.
What is folly? The lack of rationalism, we could say also the lack of order, right? But as I was saying, we are, who gives the meanings to things.
We could say that everything is folly => 99% so far, less that 1% we already ordered giving it a meaning (random numbers of course).
So, it's not folly ... but we just gave it a meaning that will slowly be internalized by all of us with time, also changing us.

[Reyajh]

Perhaps you are right in that. I can concede to it

[Jalpha]

Two of our satellites have left the heliosphere actually. Both Voyager probes iirc. They don't make them like they used to. The heliosphere is the absolute limit of space which is primarily influenced by our sun.

[Reyajh]

According to Wikipedia on August 25th 2012 Voyager 1 became the 1st human-made object to enter interstellar space. However, according to NASA Voyager 2 is currently in the Heliosheath. Voyager 1 I believe (Read it somewhere) is currently in the 'Bow Shock'. I guess they are considered to have left the solar system, however, Voyager 1 which is further along will remain (If I recall correctly) in the 'Bow Shock' for quite some time. That is an area where the suns solar wind piles up (Paraphrasing here) against the interstellar medium, just like waves pile up against a ship bow before it even gets there. So either way, technically, neither have left the suns realm of influence.
Edit: Oops, had to correct my links.

[Jalpha]

Damn. Space is big. Why are we still overpopulating this dying rock?

[Reyajh]

Oh man, you just hit the nail on the head! Unfortunately, I believe, a lack of foresight by the leaders and masses, from whom the funding must come, and the desire of some to keep control of said masses. Human beings are not immune to the forces of nature. A force moving in a direction will continue in that direction until it is opposed by an equal and opposite force. Newton's Law right? And correct me if I miss-stated it. Greedy, power mongering people gravitate towards power like a juggernaut. The average person does not have this issue and so not as many good people gravitate towards power. This is why most people throughout history don't revolt until things are really, really bad... It is sad tho... There are asteroids just out there well within our reach that hold more precious metals like gold than all of humanity has dug up in the entirety of human history... And, to paraphrase Mel Gibson's character William Wallace from the movie Brave Heart, "still we quibble."

[Jalpha]

The wildebeast hesitate at the banks of the river but they must face the risk and sacrifice many of their own lest they all perish.

[Reyajh]

And there we found their bones a million years later..., or, wait... No one was there to see them. Did they even exist? If not then, why did we find those bones? Hehehe.

[sMartins]

To make the revolution are required two conflicting willpower. Usually the slave and the master. The last one was the Protest of 1968, between the master and the workers.
But today, the master and the slaves are togethere, on the same side, and who they fight with? The market. But the market is "nobody" ( even if Homer teach us that "nobody" is always the name of someone, Ulysses in that case.), you cannot fight against the market, at least, not with your fists or weapons.
The biggest deception of Satan it's telling us he does not exist.

Edit: Do you study Iliad and Odyssey by Homer at school? My bet is yes, we all study them in the west, but I'm not sure ...