Game is way too carebear now

[Aceb]

And then these people burn out and quit playing from such a cash grab. As I stated in another post, just because I can suck large sums of money out of a person because they lost connection to their internal inhibitors doesn't mean I should.

EKHEM actually thats exactly what a game developer should be doing. Recently I mentioned the topic of gamer "whales", I think even jorb read that. Most successful mmo games get their main funding from a small (less than 5%) group of whales who trow their money at the game with little to no inhibition.

http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/14/whale ... st-gamers/
http://www.adweek.com/socialtimes/infog ... nue/635073

1. HnH is not most successful MMO. It's in the niche.
2. P2P arrives. Player base drops highly. (and so, possible number of players [new/old/currenty playing] who could buy hats and stuff.)
3. There's a war between P2P for the #1 place on the world. The one with less money/time/effort lose. They quit because spend so much money for bullshit.
4. Last players abandon sinking ship. No point being #1 if there's no one to play with. Congratulations, another game eliminated!

[Myrgard]

1. HnH is not most successful MMO. It's in the niche.
2. P2P arrives. Player base drops highly. (and so, possible number of players [new/old/currenty playing] who could buy hats and stuff.)
3. There's a war between P2P for the #1 place on the world. The one with less money/time/effort lose. They quit because spend so much money for bullshit.
4. Last players abandon sinking ship. No point being #1 if there's no one to play with. Congratulations, another game eliminated!

1. Is, was, will be. The game was never designed as anything else. We do have poor (do we have any?) advertising, more people would play if they knew the game exists.
2. Jorb said hats make a very small income (just 21 make haven great hats prior to the wipe announcement), anyone who can pay for hats also will pay, or more rather already pays for subscription.
3. My point IS to eliminate alt abuse, a small number of people will not play a different way, so if you want to eliminate it these people simply have to go.
4. The over all quality of the game rises, more people play. (do we have advertising? any?)

[Kirche]

4. The over all quality of the game rises, more people play.

this assumes that alts are a problem that is keeping players away, for which you have no evidence of that being the case.

[MagicManICT]

1. Is, was, will be. The game was never designed as anything else. We do have poor (do we have any?) advertising, more people would play if they knew the game exists.

Not sure where you think it was "successful." Biggest concurrent login I recall seeing was in the 1500-1700 player range when games like World of Warcraft were pulling 8-10 million. It was also completely free at the time at the graces of the players to donate. This meant that the guys had to go out and get that "day job" and entered into a contract to make another game leaving Haven in a state of limbo for a few years. Also, good advertising wouldn't even come close to guaranteeing more income. That's a huge assumption and the cost of the advertising can end up costing more in the long run than letting it build by word of mouth. This is still a largely untested market not helped by all the negative reviews of similar games on Steam.

4. The over all quality of the game rises, more people play. (do we have advertising? any?)

In general, yes, this is true. Grass roots campaigns are usually much better for this as it brings in people over time as the developers can handle the increase in players. Strong ad campaigns usually work best when you have a larger team that can rapidly diagnosis serious problems quickly via multiple hands to fix it.


Overall I think both you and Aceb are talking about things you know little of, or if you do, you're not making good arguments either way. I'm not going to claim to be a business expert, but I have had more than a bit of my fair share in small businesses, and I've been around these indie games and watched too many sink from screwing things up, like grabbing cash from their customers and running. It's not a long stretch going from "fair business practice" to being investigated for unfair business practices and facing civil or, worse, criminal charges. (All I can do there is give a name: Kurt Schilling.)

[Kearn]

make killing a criminal destroy an extra % of LP from said criminal dependant upon the most severe crime they had active scents for at the time and then reward a fraction of that value to the ranger who killed them. problem solved

[Bob_the_Cat]

make killing a criminal destroy an extra % of LP from said criminal dependant upon the most severe crime they had active scents for at the time and then reward a fraction of that value to the ranger who killed them. problem solved

Yup, this would be great. If people were motivated to kill criminals we might not need all this bs to stop them from playing the game in the first place.

[Aceb]

Make an X account with 3 characters. Make them all gain some PR to commit crimes. Kill them all with your "main" or another alt, boom. LP boost.

[MagicManICT]

Make an X account with 3 characters. Make them all gain some PR to commit crimes. Kill them all with your "main" or another alt, boom. LP boost.

Yeah, alt abuse of the worst kind.

[Kearn]

well then you just have to tune down the reward and/or scale up the extra lost LP until its no longer economically feasible for farming but is a nice bonus to actual rangers

if you set the LP loss to like 30% unrecoverable for murder on top of the 10% minimum and then make the reward something like 7.5% of that 30%, i doubt many people are going to put 10 million LP of curiosities into an alt just to destroy 4m of it to pull an extra 225K LP

obviously those numbers could be tweaked at any point to something more reasonable if need be

[NaoWhut]

So I useto hardcore play old HnH.. My friends ditched the last world before I got to really try new haven out much. But we started up again this world and realized the game has gone downhill a ton on the carebear scale.

The whole outlaw defubb crap takes away the majority of the fun HnH was. I cant even nomad around anymore cuz I cant log out. If the person you are trying to steal from / attack / ect isnt your direct neighbor its not worth wasting your time on because you have to go log out in your base every time, which is just a massive time sink.

The reason this is so bad is because with a big world and small player base, the person you are interacting with can be over an hour boat ride away from your base. And you could boat over and they arnt even logged on, ect. Having to go log out at your base isnt an option.

And I originally quit/took my last extended break from haven back when the player base was too low to have fun anymore because looking around for anything took too much time already and got boring. Now even if there are players, its not worth doing. So the average time spent to fun had is even lower then before.

Legit how can you haev any conflict with someone who isnt your neighbor anymore? Unless theres something I'm missing, to siege someone a distance away would completely suck, having to come back every time you need to do something because you cant log there. Which could be an hour / half hour to come back. For possibly no action at all.

I'm curious as to Jorb and Loftars opinion on this. The game isnt what it useto be on the hardcore scale. This is massive carebear. And every hardcore game seems to be going in the same make the open pvp players life suck direction. Which was the main reason a lot of us came to this game in the first place.

Morale of the story, I'm pretty disappointed that the most hardcore game I've played is no longer the most hardcore. Rip haven, you will be remembered.

-Bob the Cat, slayer of peasants

IDK who you are, but you sound like a
carebear to me