Botting discussion

[GamingRAM]

There is one thing I don't understand, why do some people fight against any kind of anti-bot measures so hard?
Is it because all that time you invested developing them would go to waste?

From what I've gathered, most people think all the game dev time gone towards bot-busting would go to waste. I personally kind of agree, though I do think botting is holding HnH back. But, so are a lot of things(A single-threaded server design that can only handle ~1,000 concurrent users being a big one). And, at this point, what's holding back HnH is sort of irrelevant because the devs have made it clear they aren't interested in increasing the player base and the player base they do have is going to play regardless of botting.

Sounds like this entire discussion is pointless then.
Nothing will change because the only ones who can make changes won't do anything.

[Ysh]

this entire discussion is pointless then

Congratulate to you my friend! You have graduate now from this containment thread. Feel free to enjoy rest of forum.

[MagicManICT]

this entire discussion is pointless then

Congratulate to you my friend! You have graduate now from this containment thread. Feel free to enjoy rest of forum.

Nominated for best comment, w12!!

[wolf1000wolf]

this entire discussion is pointless then

Congratulate to you my friend! You have graduate now from this containment thread. Feel free to enjoy rest of forum.

I'm sure we all logically understand this discussion is 99.9% fruitless labour but there's that tiny portion of hope out of love for this game which hopes our discussion might possibly, maybe, potentially, just move the devs.

[MagicManICT]

I'm sure we all logically understand this discussion is 99.9% fruitless labour but there's that tiny portion of hope out of love for this game which hopes our discussion might possibly, maybe, potentially, just move the devs.

It's not that they're not moved by the passion, I think. I believe there are political and technological ideologies involved that just aren't going to be swayed by "but these guys do this and this" and "this paper says to do this," or most any other argument that could be put up.

Americans will, for the most part, stand up and defend freedom of speech. Sure, the whole picture gets a bit fuzzy every once in a while (McCarthyism comes to mind, cancel culture, etc), but in the end, we do stand up for what we believe in, even if we stray from the path as individuals or as groups within the whole for some period of time. After all, it's freedom of speech that allows us to utter such stupid editorial remarks things I really don't feel like repeating. (Wouldn't want to get cancelled.. )

It's that kind of political and and technical ideology that I'm referring to for Haven. I know I probably don't make much sense here without thinking hard on it, and apologies for not getting my point across precisely, but I just don't know how to put it without a major treatise on technological freedom, blah blah blah.

[wolf1000wolf]

I'm sure we all logically understand this discussion is 99.9% fruitless labour but there's that tiny portion of hope out of love for this game which hopes our discussion might possibly, maybe, potentially, just move the devs.

It's not that they're not moved by the passion, I think. I believe there are political and technological ideologies involved that just aren't going to be swayed by "but these guys do this and this" and "this paper says to do this," or most any other argument that could be put up.

Americans will, for the most part, stand up and defend freedom of speech. Sure, the whole picture gets a bit fuzzy every once in a while (McCarthyism comes to mind, cancel culture, etc), but in the end, we do stand up for what we believe in, even if we stray from the path as individuals or as groups within the whole for some period of time. After all, it's freedom of speech that allows us to utter such stupid editorial remarks things I really don't feel like repeating. (Wouldn't want to get cancelled.. )

It's that kind of political and and technical ideology that I'm referring to for Haven. I know I probably don't make much sense here without thinking hard on it, and apologies for not getting my point across precisely, but I just don't know how to put it without a major treatise on technological freedom, blah blah blah.

Good point. The problem I have now is... I've long forgotten what jorbtar's stance on this issue IS exactly... beyond the whole general idea of "fix mechanics that incentivize botting"? But they've never really done a good job of that...

[jacob232]

Yea fighting botting in most ways is utterly useless.....best way of approaching the problem in a sane way and not completely ignore it would be to ask the question: "Why do so many people bot? Why do most custom clients have bots enabled?" Its because in the current state of the game its almost a requirement depending on the size of the base, group and task in question.

Come up with ways to reduce tedium, automate certain tasks....like farming a 20x20 plot i should be able to automatically drink while farming the grid area i selected.

[Burinn]

Americans will, for the most part, stand up and defend freedom of speech.

That got a laugh out of me.

[kabuto202]

Sounds like this entire discussion is pointless then.
Nothing will change because the only ones who can make changes won't do anything.

It's why my entire stance on the subject passive aggressive and snarky "we have tried nothing and we're all out of ideas" while hoping that Jorbtar would just release private servers already so I can just enjoy Haven with my mates without having to deal with this shit.

What other more successful games even ones with the same niche audience have been doing to observable improvements, doesn't work. What we have been doing for years now with no observable improvement, does work.

This kind of reminds me of those videos where a flat-Earther would attempt a scientific experiment to prove the Earth is flat. Accidentally prove it's round. Then immediately enter denial.exe mode.

Seriously though, I don't think that the logic behind "fix the mechanic is entirely flawed" but strictly speaking it only addresses the archtype of players who bot because a mechanic is unengaging, but won't do shit to address people who bot because they want to gain a competitive advantage over others. That's not to say there isn't an overlap between the two, but there's a reason why in spite of all the changes made botting in Haven appears to be as prolific now as it has ever been.

[wolf1000wolf]

Americans will, for the most part, stand up and defend freedom of speech.

That got a laugh out of me.

Burinn please. Edit your post to the right person.