Is Brexit rooted in deep psychological white-guilt?

[Burinn]

ITT:

" Don't get your information from the news or the media, it's biased and therefor cannot be trusted."


Might I ask where you get your superior, unbiased news from? Or how you can even formulate ANY opinion on the matter if you don't use "media"? Protip. You can't. That's the only way to get information about it. Given the fact you're both under the age of 18 and live in a state with an active, obscured, propaganda wing, how can you even begin to tell others that they're uninformed or misinformed without knowing where they're getting their information from? Protip. You can't.


EDIT: Additionally. You can ask all you want that people not talk about your homeland invading and killing their neighbors, but don't expect anyone to do it. My family had to leave Europe under Nazi occupation. I can empathize with Atamzsiktrop, but I'll never be able to understand that kind of pain. If someone in the NSDAP said to my great grandfather "Don't talk about my country killing the Jews, that upsets me!" I'd expect him to spit in their face.


EDIT2: "There are no Russian troops in Ukraine."

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f30_1393584675

I guess that's true if you don't consider Sevestapol and Crimea Ukraine anymore after Russia invaded it huh? There are literally over hundreds of videos of Crimea's invasion. Probably all Obama's propoganda tbh.

[Hasta]

" Don't get your information from the news or the media, it's biased and therefor cannot be trusted."
<...>
I guess that's true if you don't consider Sevestapol and Crimea Ukraine anymore after Russia invaded it huh? There are literally over hundreds of videos of Crimea's invasion. Probably all Obama's propoganda tbh.

*shrugs* Crimea had the referendum and the majority of people voted to join Russia. The only absolute fact here is that referendum was, in fact, held in place. Whether it was legit or not, did people vote under threats or were they willing to leave falling apart Ukraine to join power-mongering Russia - is all mere speculation and perpetuating media-obscured information.

So, basically, there were a referendum with publicly announced results, which made Crimea (that's a peninsula) and Sevastopol (that's a city located on that peninsula) Russian territory. The vote is legit unless proven otherwise, please, by all means do so, since the thread is FUBAR anyways.

Just FYI, the budget of Crimea has tripled compared to it while under Ukrainian government. FYI2, the official Ukrainian media now tell a different story: that crimeans weren't forced or their votes falsified, they say that "crimeans were fooled and their lives became worse". These are facts, not speculations.

My family had to leave Europe under Nazi occupation. I can empathize with Atamzsiktrop, but I'll never be able to understand that kind of pain. If someone in the NSDAP said to my great grandfather "Don't talk about my country killing the Jews, that upsets me!" I'd expect him to spit in their face.

Current Ukrainian government came to power after a coup, largely staged with help of non-official armed forces wielding nazist symbolics. Historical figures, widely known for their cooperation with nazist forces, are now praised as "warriors for Ukrainian freedom" (again, those are also admitted facts). I am not saying those facts are "bad", everyone entitled to believe in what he chooses to. I'm just suggesting you pick your arguments more carefully to take your point across.

You can ask all you want that people not talk about your homeland invading and killing their neighbors, but don't expect anyone to do it.

Aaaand this is cyber-bullying in it's prime. I don't demand anything or deny you your opinion, neither am I responsible for those crimes you're accusing me for - I am not a member of some russian "NSDAP" as the nazi in your example (and if the crimes did take place I am surely do not approve of them).
I am just asking, nicely, to move this arguable offtopic into a specified thread where we could discuss it without weaving several discussions together.
You refusing "just cause", because you dislike me and want to hurt me, and you think that insisting on perpetuating the topic would do so.
Looks like you and all your "social justice" is full of it, my fair lady.

[Burinn]

" Don't get your information from the news or the media, it's biased and therefor cannot be trusted."
<...>
I guess that's true if you don't consider Sevestapol and Crimea Ukraine anymore after Russia invaded it huh? There are literally over hundreds of videos of Crimea's invasion. Probably all Obama's propoganda tbh.

*shrugs* Crimea had the referendum and the majority of people voted to join Russia. The only absolute fact here is that referendum was, in fact, held in place. Whether it was legit or not, did people vote under threats or were they willing to leave falling apart Ukraine to join power-mongering Russia - is all mere speculation and perpetuating media-obscured information.

Having a referendum on joining a country that is literally occupying you is the definition of doing it under threat. You're under foreign occupation.

My family had to leave Europe under Nazi occupation. I can empathize with Atamzsiktrop, but I'll never be able to understand that kind of pain. If someone in the NSDAP said to my great grandfather "Don't talk about my country killing the Jews, that upsets me!" I'd expect him to spit in their face.

Current Ukrainian government came to power after a coup, largely staged with help of non-official armed forces wielding nazist symbolics. Historical figures, widely known for their cooperation with nazist forces, are now praised as "warriors for Ukrainian freedom" (again, those are also admitted facts). I am not saying those facts are "bad", everyone entitled to believe in what he chooses to. I'm just suggesting you pick your arguments more carefully to take your point across.

None of that has to do anything with what I just said. You do not get to choose what other people talk about because it hurts your feelings or makes you upset. Sorry, that's not how free thought works.

You can ask all you want that people not talk about your homeland invading and killing their neighbors, but don't expect anyone to do it.

Aaaand this is cyber-bullying in it's prime. I don't demand anything or deny you your opinion, neither am I responsible for those crimes you're accusing me for (and if the crimes did take place I am surely do not approve of them).
I am just asking, nicely.
You refusing "just cause", because you dislike me and want to hurt me.
Looks like you and all your "social justice" is full of it, my fair lady.

I didn't say anything about what I was doing, it wasn't about me, it was about anyone. Regardless of that, I do refuse to because I'm not going to stand for someone apologist trying to claim transgression of Ukraine's sovereignty is just speculation. You can claim Ukraine is better off all you want. Their sovereignty was infringed. If the United States invaded Cuba, you sure as shit can bet its nominal GDP is going up. Does that justify it? Absolutely not. Yeah, sorry I'm not concerned with a 17 year old Russian's feelings when they justify the murder of Ukrainian's because "they're better off under Russia".

[Burinn]

If I came in here asking people not to talk about the German invasions in WWII because I was claiming the nations under German occupation were better off with the German industrial base backing them, I'd hope I'd receive the same amount of backlash and I'm giving you.

[Atamzsiktrop]

*shrugs* Crimea had the referendum and the majority of people voted to join Russia. The only absolute fact here is that referendum was, in fact, held in place. Whether it was legit or not, did people vote under threats or were they willing to leave falling apart Ukraine to join power-mongering Russia - is all mere speculation and perpetuating media-obscured information.

So, basically, there were a referendum with publicly announced results, which made Crimea (that's a peninsula) and Sevastopol (that's a city located on that peninsula) Russian territory. The vote is legit unless proven otherwise, please, by all means do so, since the thread is FUBAR anyways.

Having a referendum held by ANOTHER country in YOUR country asking if some part of it wants to leave is ridiculous to start with. Calling it legit is just plain stupid.

[Burinn]

*shrugs* Crimea had the referendum and the majority of people voted to join Russia. The only absolute fact here is that referendum was, in fact, held in place. Whether it was legit or not, did people vote under threats or were they willing to leave falling apart Ukraine to join power-mongering Russia - is all mere speculation and perpetuating media-obscured information.

So, basically, there were a referendum with publicly announced results, which made Crimea (that's a peninsula) and Sevastopol (that's a city located on that peninsula) Russian territory. The vote is legit unless proven otherwise, please, by all means do so, since the thread is FUBAR anyways.

It's should probably be noted that Sevestapol wasn't Russian owned after the dissolution of the USSR. They'd been leasing it from Ukraine and it was set to expire sometime in the 2020's or something like that. Wonder how disastrous losing their only warm-water port in the Black Sea would have been. Guess we'll never know since they coincidentally invaded them and seized control of it.

[dageir]

[Burinn]

All joking aside, I genuinely want to know where you get all this information that enables you to tell everyone else they're either wrong or misinformed. Please say RT.

[Hasta]

Having a referendum on joining a country that is literally occupying you is the definition of doing it under threat. You're under foreign occupation.

Crimea had a joint Russian and Ukrainian armed forces according to international agreement between countries. After the coup in Kyiv, said agreement got thrown away by new extremist anti-russian government, and the legitimately allocated in Crimea russian troops were deemed "invasion forces". Funny how things worked huh.

None of that has to do anything with what I just said. You do not get to choose what other people talk about because it hurts your feelings or makes you upset. Sorry, that's not how free thought works.

I'm just suggesting you pick your arguments more carefully to take your point across.

As I said, I am not a member of that illusory "russian NSDAP" of yours, yet somehow you hold me responsible and stereotyping me into some close-minded propaganda-ridden freak. I operate with undeniable facts. I neither support nor deny speculations, and I form my own opinion based on this.

I didn't say anything about what I was doing, it wasn't about me, it was about anyone. Regardless of that, I do refuse to because I'm not going to stand for someone apologist trying to claim transgression of Ukraine's sovereignty is just speculation. You can claim Ukraine is better off all you want. Their sovereignty was infringed. If the United States invaded Cuba, you sure as shit can bet its nominal GDP is going up. Does that justify it? Absolutely not. Yeah, sorry I'm not concerned with a 17 year old Russian's feelings when they justify the murder of Ukrainian's because "they're better off under Russia".

Again, your "social justice" applies only when it's you who's in a spotlight.
Read my posts more carefully, I am stressing this again: I do not deny anything but sheer speculations.
I do not know for a fact if there are russian troops in Ukraine; I know for a fact there are armed pro-russian forces receiving support from people in adjacent russian territories (encouraged by propaganda or goodwill? that I do not know).
I do not know if the Crimean referendum was legit. I do not see proof of it being illegitimate, and I believe if they existed they would be widely made public.
I agree with Atam that holding a referendum on other country's territory is at least bending a few rules, but so is a coup denouncing legitimately chosen government.
And so on and so on. I try to think for myself and share my own opinion with you, yet you treat me like I am your personal enemy.

P.S. yeah, you keep trying to poke me guessing my age wrong, is that still a thing? I thought that was used only in some f2p korean grindy mmos.

[Burinn]

P.S. yeah, you keep trying to poke me guessing my age wrong, is that still a thing? I thought that was used only in some f2p korean grindy mmos.

...and only recruiting adults!

Dang! S-so close... :<

So do you admit to trolling on the forum, or do I need to coax it out of you?


I really don't have anything else to say. You can't argue with someone about the Holocaust if they deny it ever happened. Much in the same way you can't argue with someone when they deny the existence mountains of evidence. Extreme skepticism is a horrible outlook on life. Sorry.