Content deny strategy

[DDDsDD999]

To have healthy PvP you need healthy PvP incentives. 99% of the time you don't get anything out of winning a fight other than the bragging rights. IMO the game should put more focus on equipment, and move away from top equipment depending on high q anvil and spammable shit like steel and instead make it more dependent on stuff you can't mass produce inside your walls (dungeon loot, whale parts etc.).

Yeah, the equipment system being only determined by how autistic the guy mining is is one of the biggest problems with the structure of the game. Your gear is just determined by how much your miner grinded the anvil, your group HAS to have one, and all gear is just reduced to an amount of steel.

It would be cool if someone could upgrade their gear from a variety of activities, and have it be viable for pvp, instead of everyone just relying on the miner to spam enough steel on their anvil.

[SnuggleSnail]

arguing about supplementary fluff while it's winter outside is laughably out of touch

[JohnBender]

Pandering to sixty antisocial dipshits might not be the move.

Well said.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

you've DB-d an AK guy with a row of rockets on him only to get killed by a compound bow while looting the body.

This part of Potjeh's post on Rust actually deserves more recognition.
He's describing shooting a guy equipped with an "AK" - I guess considered one of the best weapons in Rust - and instantly killing him with a double barrel shotgun, a cheap and accessible weapon that most nabs can get to relatively quickly.... then looting him for some insane endgame loot, before in turn being killed by someone with a bow, another cheap and available weapon.

The Haven equivalent would be some random dude with a bronze plate and bronze sword insta-killing a b12er in full steel because the b12er walked into his bush unprepared... then being downed by a guy with an obsidian dagger as he was looting the body. It sounds laughable even trying to describe this in Haven terms, because the game systems simply don't support such a thing really happening this way.

In Rust, the more skilled player is usually going to win, but sometimes they'll just walk around a corner into a hobo with a double barrel and get blasted.
In Rust, skill is going to give you an advantage, but it's merely going to increase your likelihood of success - You're still going to lose some fights to shittier players, even rarely relatively bad players with the right equipment, in the right place, at the right time.
In Rust, the gear is going to give you an advantage, but not an insurmountable one.

That's far, far, more egalitarian than the current setup in Haven. As Minehole Goatse and the Archipenos guy said, the system is kinda shitty for anyone but the current entrenched PvPers, who can more or less murder and grief with impunity... and they've an interest in lobbying Jorb to keep it that way. I think that the game would be far better served by a system that gives even the bottom 50% a chance to beat the top x%, at least some of the time. There should always be risk for entrenched PvPers, and if we are going to contemplate a radical change, I think it should be a system where even Jorb has a real fighting shot at KO'ing some sweaty no-life who treats Haven PvP like a job. It can still be hard, complex, and reward skill - But there should be some core ability for even a random peasant to pick up a crossbow and find that chink in your gorget and lodge that bolt in your jugular.

[whateverisfine]

Yeah, the equipment system being only determined by how autistic the guy mining is is one of the biggest problems with the structure of the game. Your gear is just determined by how much your miner grinded the anvil, your group HAS to have one, and all gear is just reduced to an amount of steel.

It would be cool if someone could upgrade their gear from a variety of activities, and have it be viable for pvp, instead of everyone just relying on the miner to spam enough steel on their anvil.

pvp would happen less often if gear wouldnt be replaceable as it is, bad suggestion, increase the grind from 1 activity to bunch of.

Due to the super stats-based nature of the game, the vast majority of players cannot remotely defend themselves. Someone who plays explicitly to reduce sociality came and stopped that, and stopped it so hard that it isn't possible to recover from it regardless of play time logged. After one thousand hours, my q will be lower than the one who was not killed and clocked one thousand and ten hours, and so on forever.

In the spirit of PvP mmos, and of mean-heartedness, and of honesty, this dude and many of the "PvP" dudes are, and i mean this, carebeared as fuck. They don't fight each other. They whine when a non-PvP oriented player has even the remotest possibility of escape. It's like saying the dogs that they kick ought also to not have legs to run, or teeth with which to bite, or mouths at all to make such loathsome crying sounds. They are asking you to make a dumb fucking game, jorb.

P.S. as proof that they don't want more PvP, just easier griefing, let me suggest PvP stat adjusting like in instanced PvP scenarios. And only in PvP, so that you don't have to rework your entire game. Turn stat differences into ratios and let that be reflected as your general capacity in that stat so that skilled spruces can put up a fight. Boom, now everyone can (and will) fight. That's all they want, right? "b-b-b-but i earned that 3000 strength, i should be able to 1 shot them, muh realism." I'm telling you dude, they do not want more PvP.

Combat equalization already gives enough room for casuals. People just don't want to put some effort learning, its hard to see a valid complain and almost all messages suggest a lack of understanding of game mechanics. You are right tho, most pvp dudes don't want pvp they just want to kill hermits.

[MightySheep]

Archipenos point is automatically disproven by how every pvper liked the ua equalisation change and would have probably liked the attribute equalisation had it not been cancelled for whatever reason

There is an assumption that there is some level of 'fairness" where retarded shitters will suddenly stop being retarded and shit but that's just never going to be the case. The whole game could be completely reworked and u will still have the same winners and losers, its in ur dna

[Archipenos]

its in ur dna

I see you, 4chan slop "learned helplessness" unemployed unwashed NEET internet dweller.

In any case if I have 4x your damage, 7x your health, 5x your dodge, im going to win. You're exactly who shouldn't be pandered to. You know there are issues yet shit-piss from your mouth instead of being honest. Just be honest, bud. Ultimately, you dont just reduce the population, you reduce the PvP as well. As in, there is less of it in game because occasionally devs listen to you.

Ua stat equalization, or any other magic trick you pull from your hat, is nullified by the first sentence of my second paragraph. How many worlds has it been since you risked anything in combat? No matter how geared or even skilled a player is, PvP should always be a risk, even if minor. Open world PvP doesn't really work without that.

Another less "hardcore" instance would be me and my buddy fending off a player about 10 levels above us in open PvP in WoW. I died, attacker died, my buddy lived. Attacker wasn't functionally immortal. Another example would be the Conan mmo where my brother kicked a guy 30 levels above him off a cliff. I can throw more examples out if you like.

None of those can happen in Haven. If the stat gap is large enough, your win rate is 100%. Who is the carebear, here? I don't want a 100% win rate. I want a chance to whack you next world.

[matheuswm]

its in ur dna

I see you, 4chan slop "learned helplessness" unemployed unwashed NEET internet dweller.

In any case if I have 4x your damage, 7x your health, 5x your dodge, im going to win. You're exactly who shouldn't be pandered to. You know there are issues yet shit-piss from your mouth instead of being honest. Just be honest, bud. Ultimately, you dont just reduce the population, you reduce the PvP as well. As in, there is less of it in game because occasionally devs listen to you.

Ua stat equalization, or any other magic trick you pull from your hat, is nullified by the first sentence of my second paragraph. How many worlds has it been since you risked anything in combat? No matter how geared or even skilled a player is, PvP should always be a risk, even if minor. Open world PvP doesn't really work without that.

Another less "hardcore" instance would be me and my buddy fending off a player about 10 levels above us in open PvP in WoW. I died, attacker died, my buddy lived. Attacker wasn't functionally immortal. Another example would be the Conan mmo where my brother kicked a guy 30 levels above him off a cliff. I can throw more examples out if you like.

None of those can happen in Haven. If the stat gap is large enough, your win rate is 100%. Who is the carebear, here? I don't want a 100% win rate. I want a chance to whack you next world.

Don't mind him, he's one of the insufferable edgy terminally online antisocials that this game was molded for in the last couple years.

I just wanted to kill "lategame" PVE content in groups eventually. Doing dungeons with some people i met in markets two worlds ago was peak haven for me and it saddens me that a huge market with semi casual players that could group safely to have fun is nigh impossible now. I'm pretty sure i'll never manage to kill a troll because the combat system has been made unusable solo without cheese and there is no one left playing because the small playerbase has been divided.

We were like 30 people having fun with this game at a time the world is supposed to be dead, if attention were to be paid to ten insufferable terminally online twats crying wolf everytime their dopamine-addled brains aren't getting enough stimulation from griefing. They have gaslighted everyone else into thinking they knew what they wanted and that their feedback was somehow more valuable because they play more and claim to PVP more.

Spoiler: they have one or two even fights at most per world and the rest of the time is spent griefing weaker people or complaining here. It's seriously impressive how some of you have upwards of a thousand forum posts a year. What the heck are you doing with your time if you don't even enjoy playing?

The reason "low stakes" pvp does not entertain you is that you are not here for a challenge, you are here to ruin other people's experience ingame. If you just wanted a show of skill against evenly matched people you'd enjoy lower stakes (and that's why games such as MOBAs or battle royales are so popular), but alas, you're here to do PERMANENT DAMAGE to someone's experience. otherwise we're forced to read more drivel by discord drama queens.

If you enjoyed the challenge (and if the challenge was in any way fair for the one catching up) you wouldn't claim to quit as soon as someone else gets the upper hand between you insufferable assholes but that's how it always plays out. You guys never stage a comeback.

PS: the effect a large market that caters to newbies so they can catch up to world quality somewhat (maybe 50-100 behind, but still very important) isn't talked enough. It allowed me and others to take 2-3 week absences but not be completely out of it by the time we came back. WWW change was big, animal hibernation as well. THESE changes are worth talking about.

[FaithfulToadd]

au revoir

[whateverisfine]

In any case if I have 4x your damage, 7x your health, 5x your dodge, im going to win.

im sure you wouldnt beat a 500 stat char with you having a 1k stat char xD. i dont kill hermits but you all deserve to die for this. you talk so much about stat gap yet you never moved 1 finger to understand combat. right now theres pvp between 2 groups and in general the less stated group is winning the zerg fights. you dont understand how stat scales


i drown my 1k boi right now if you do it.

u cant even eat fish roast meat and sausages? its that hard get 500 stats at this point of game? if i go to to green temptations market with a fresh acc right, harvest shit that ppl pay, buy some meat and a table in a week i could wipe your entire bloodline and escape all relevant fighters that would go after me. you all talk about rust and some other shit pvp game and yet the tryhards there who spent a shit ton of hours would clap casuals everytime in a fresh wipe. thats cause they have skill and spent more time playing the game. there is a shit ton of hnh content spread through youtube, some cancerous discord and forums.

- noo this guy killed my char in a game where i can click some rabbits and escape and we have the same speed its so unfair
- nooo this guy spent 15k hours in this game i should be able to fight him and win (funny enough in haven you can spend few dozens and do it)

why dont you make a thread asking about stuff and how to not get clapped instead of asking devs to fix stuff you dont know nothing about?

PVP current problem is more of a social/community aspect and lack of meaningful pvp content intrisic to the game features. Meteorite could be reworked a bit, instanced areas a bit similar to albion corrupted dungeons/hellgates would be fun.