Is Brexit rooted in deep psychological white-guilt?

[Ysh]

Use undeniable facts.

Such thing is rare in politic.

Cogito Ergo Sum.

The discussion begins and ends there if we want to be as pedantic as possible.

Even without taking to this extreme, what I say is true when compare to other topic.

[Hasta]

@Ysh: not talking about politics, per se, but rather about media and propaganda.
Example:
Russian media: there is no russian soldiers in Ukraine (propaganda). Ukrainian media: yes there are (propaganda).
Fact: there is a civil war going on in Ukraine, with one side being supported by Russia, not officially.
Speculation: most likely there are soldiers in Ukraine with Russian citizenship; Russia and Ukraine was very close during Soviet era (closer than any other parts of USSR), so the relatives are many on both sides of this crisis. It is unlikely that those military men are officially organised and send there by the state, though, because that would be easily proven and had a disasterous consequences.

See, it's not that complicated to base your opinion on facts. If you wish to weighn in here, I will gladly consider your counter-arguments of theories and may just change my opinion.

Quoting this because my edit responding to Ysh got left behing on previous page. Mind you, that's just an example of what I am suggesting, as opposed to clashing propsganda statements, which won't do any good and won't change anyone's opinion.

[Burinn]

@Ysh: not talking about politics, per se, but rather about media and propaganda.
Example:
Russian media: there is no russian soldiers in Ukraine (propaganda). Ukrainian media: yes there are (propaganda).
Fact: there is a civil war going on in Ukraine, with one side being supported by Russia, not officially.
Speculation: most likely there are soldiers in Ukraine with Russian citizenship; Russia and Ukraine was very close during Soviet era (closer than any other parts of USSR), so the relatives are many on both sides of this crisis. It is unlikely that those military men are officially organised and send there by the state, though, because that would be easily proven and had a disasterous consequences.

See, it's not that complicated to base your opinion on facts. If you wish to weighn in here, I will gladly consider your counter-arguments of theories and may just change my opinion.

Quoting this because my edit responding to Ysh got left behing on previous page. Mind you, that's just an example of what I am suggesting, as opposed to clashing propsganda statements, which won't do any good and won't change anyone's opinion.

What do you make of Russian soldiers' posts on social media that are geo-tagged inside Ukraine's borders. Or the pictures of Russian helicopters over Ukraine. Does that fall inside concrete evidence or "probably doctored by a foreign government to garner hatred of Russia".

[Jalpha]

"Only believe half of what you see
And none of what you hear."

[Hasta]

What do you make of Russian soldiers' posts on social media that are geo-tagged inside Ukraine's borders. Or the pictures of Russian helicopters over Ukraine. Does that fall inside concrete evidence or "probably doctored by a foreign government to garner hatred of Russia".

Soldiers over social media - same as I make of "thousands of Kremlin-paid trolls infesting wertern social media to spread Moscow propaganda" - i have serious doubts, and for a reason. Firstly, I don't believe a soldier in his right mind would post someting along the lines of: "Ivan Petrov, military division 1-8/665472, stationed near occupied by our division Kramatorsk! Lots of love, here's my selfie!". Regular army troops get their mail checked and any actual information deducted even in times of peace.

Then again, in times of war things can be messy and someone could be stupid enough to post that for real - how do you think what would happen to that person, basically giving out his country biggest hush-hush at the moment? Yet most of those account I researched are active and updating regularly.

And thirdly, as I said before - I do believe there are russians of military professions in Ukraine, fighting with regular ukrainian army. I just seriously doubt they were dispatched as an official action. The propaganda is indeed have a very big impact over mainland Russia, even more so in Ukraine-adjacent territories (they don't even consider themselves different countries and disregard state borders sometimes), so if they felt they needed to join the rebelling militia, I don't really see what could've stopped them.

See, I presented you with my thoughts on the matter that you've brought up. Not claiming anything is the absolute truth; not making snidy comments and implied insults. Just rationalism, common sense and basic logic.

Oh right, pictures of helicopters. Russia and Ukraine basically had the same army not longer than 15 years ago, so helicopters are pretty much the same. Not a very convincing thing, those photos.
I, on the other hand, can give you an exclusive: when the crisis was just starting to hit the fan, my father (ethnic ukrainian) made this photo on the streets of Lugansk* circa 2014 (iirc). Yes, this is an actual battle tank, with a red flag and Soviet symbolics waving over. In Lugansk. What is your thoughts about this? I remind you, it's a genuine, exclusive, first-hand thing.

____
Edit: rechecked my father's mail, found out I mixed up the cities. He moved from Kharkov to Lugansk at the time, not the other way around as I remembered for some reason.

[Burinn]

See, I presented you with my thoughts on the matter that you've brought up. Not claiming anything is the absolute truth; not making snidy comments and implied insults. Just rationalism, common sense and basic logic.

Bolded for emphasis.

Maybe you're not looking to discuss, you're looking to confront, which is not of particular interest to me, that's why our exchange of posts won't be fruitful or constructive in any way.

Also, judging by your attitude, I believe your cherry's been picked long before I've seen your posts.

Looks like you and all your "social justice" is full of it, my fair lady.

P.S. yeah, you keep trying to poke me guessing my age wrong, is that still a thing? I thought that was used only in some f2p korean grindy mmos.

Aaaand this is cyber-bullying in it's prime.

[Burinn]

"I'm not making snide comments! I'm just stating facts!"

[dageir]

Hasta:

[Hasta]

<...>
Bolded for emphasis.
<...>

I thought as much. You have no wish for a discussion. I put effort, swallow all the frustration with our previous conversation and make an honest-to-god post, answering your question about my input on an aspect of political and social crisis in question.

What do you do?

You go to previous, heated and hostile from both sides discussion, pick a few phrases and throw them at me.
No, I was not making any snide comments or hidden insults in that last post, as I stated in it. It was an invitation to productive and mutually enlightening discussion, as I suggested in my post before that one.

Can you honestly tell me, why? As in, what is it you were intending to achieve aside from pointless confrontation and meaningless disproving each other's posts based on their form rather than their meaning?

[Burinn]

No, I was not making any snide comments or hidden insults in that last post, as I stated in it.

Yes. And that absolves you of everything you already said. Please, call an excavation team to remove your head from its lodged position.