To the Devs: is Botting Funding you

[joojoo1975]

Eradicating botting is impossible.
It could be made restricted, formally not allowed, but people would still bot.
Only disadvantage that normal game experience might have from botting is stuff like pvp. Your neighbour might have stats that are nearly impossible or impossible to reach without you botting. But is killing your high-statted neighbours defined as normal game experience in HnH. Maybe not.

Impossible? on certain levels agreed, but when we talk more in depth what you say about the fact of making it less and less convenient is the key in my opinion. Also, the statement about killing your Titan statted neighbor, is Exactly what I mean about how Botting/exploits have Plagued H&H for years. The average Bot is not trying to simply "make the game playable" no it's to skirt the tedious grind for better and better Qualities and whatnot so they then can, basically run Rough shot over their area/Server. This has happened since I started playing back in W2. Almost, if not every World, has had botters/exploiters that were nuked in some fashion, because they didn't make bots/exploits so they could "enjoy the game" but so they could be Asshats in one way or another.

Defining whether or not botting affects the amount of money that the game produces in an increasing or decreasing way is impossible. Most likely not in a negative way.
How many players that would pay a lot of money for apparels and subscriptions really have quit HnH with a sole reason of somebody using bots? Probably none.

I'm not asking the concept if the game is hurt funding wise by players quitting because of botting, I simply wanted a honest answer on if J&L know that if the majority of botters in the game have verified accounts/subscriptions. Basically the moral dilemma of "oh dang, a lot of the players that pay me money also bot, what should I do!" Do I actually expect honesty though, yes and no. on one hand they seem to be forthright in the past, but then again they are(as us all) human.

Somebody might say that it is idiotic to use many hours a day grinding beetroots for your cows when you could code a bot to make this for you, and use that time for fun things in game, rather than some boring chores that can easily be automated.

And some might say, if you are going to code all the mundane/boring stuff in a game, maybe the game isn't for you. Or you could say " All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity are easy. Stay away from easy." - Scott Alaxander

[sMartins]

I'm agree pretty much with all the arguments in here, but the truth more or less is that now J&L cannot do that much about it, they will continue to develop the game, and it's the best thing they can do, and maybe one day when the game is in a good shape they will bring it to the next level with a new client, closed and a better security overall.
I think this is required soon or later if they want to step up the game, go to steam, etc.. etc... otherwise they can keep the game as it is, very indie and for a small amount of people ... this is a decision they will need to make for H&H future and not an easy decision.
P.S. Also depends on if they are happy with what the game makes in terms of money right now or not. And also tbh, I think that right now fixing exploits it's much more important for the actual state the game is in.

[loftar]

I remember games where boting had been effectively eliminated by simply prohibiting bots and selectively (and draconialy) enforcing it. I do remember cases when people would be afraid to buy to cheap items from an auction house as everyone connected to boting got their accounts deleted every once in a while, even those that bought boted items.

Is that really a good thing, though? Part of the reason that we don't have a strict rule against botting is that it is also not straightforward to even define with any accuracy what constitutes botting. If any and all forms of automization are to be considered prohibited, then I'd nuke your base for using Amber's Ctrl-Alt feature for dropping all items of a particular type. I've seen that Wurm Online literally has (or at least had) a rule against putting a weight on your keyboard's W key in order to walk indefinitely instead of using your finger to do the same thing, and I don't think that's a good rule. Which also brings me to my next point...

But the philosophy of "We try to take botting as a sign of a broken game mechanic, rather than as a sign of broken players" I believe is somewhat askew. Some of the people Bot, not because of broken game mechanics, but because they want to cheat and be the best.

You're missing the point, though, that it can be argued to be the game mechanic's fault that it's even possible to bot them in order to gain an advantage. If a game mechanic benefits that heavily from being played 24/7 while at the same time being automatable, then arguably that's a bad mechanic. Obviously it's not that easy when considering all shades and aspects of it, but it is certainly a standpoint that is possible to argue for.

That being said, I have sometimes gone and destroyed stuff and killed characters that engage in obvious and blatant botting, but clearly not enough to deter it entirely.

[Gensokyo]

That being said, I have sometimes gone and destroyed stuff and killed characters that engage in obvious and blatant botting, but clearly not enough to deter it entirely.

hello yes where is the moot thread with footage of said destroying and killing

[loftar]

hello yes where is the moot thread with footage of said destroying and killing

Haha, yes, setting my foot in the moot. That's something I'd do, ever. You funny, I kill you last.

[ChildhoodObesity]

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=51156 i mean there was this XD

[MagicManICT]

http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=51156 i mean there was this XD

That was along the lines of world 4 trouble, though. Difference being... you can do a lot with all that xp, but didn't break things like the mining bots did when the current mining system was introduced right next to the old LP system for LP gain on actions. The botters got to L5 fast and ground so much LP, I think jorb described it as something like "accomplished in a few weeks what normally takes six months." This was... six years? ago, and with the post lost to the forum shuffle... I'm trying to be accurate as possible, and I know the numbers are probably wrong, but it's the general idea. And it's why we won't see that system ever again. W4 ended because of the botting problem and the numbers were so bad.

[joojoo1975]

so your saying the numbers of today, pale in comparison to the botted numbers of W4?

I dunno, but 15K+ stats seems, to be what I hear as the top notch atm. though this late in the game, i'm prolly off big time.

After W3 peeps on forums and in Teamspeak was using the DBZ "Over 9000" meme as the "joke of the day"

guess now it's not so much a joke

:/

[spawningmink]

so your saying the numbers of today, pale in comparison to the botted numbers of W4?

I dunno, but 15K+ stats seems, to be what I hear as the top notch atm. though this late in the game, i'm prolly off big time.

After W3 peeps on forums and in Teamspeak was using the DBZ "Over 9000" meme as the "joke of the day"

guess now it's not so much a joke

:/

I remember in world 7 comodo had like 3-4k str and it was one of the best statted char in the game

[Aceb]

Well, while farming can be automated by well-made hand-crafted bots, the real way to counter it for "fair" players is to either have stuff like in amber that allows quickly select area to harvest.

Another way would be to implement a vehicle / equipment that would allow "fair" players to harvest and collect farm products faster (like something that allows to gather 2x2 / 3x3 / 9x9 area or something, which high cost). Because everyone knows that with time, settlement of any player is going to be bigger.

Countering bot hunting/anything else is impossible. I was often thinking about how to propose something against botting while it doesn't hit normal players. The problem is, there's no solution for most. If You're going to put a limit on a character (tiredness or whatever), instead of having 1 char going for 24/7, it will be X characters going for X hours each day.


Also, I don't think bots are funding HnH, but fairly many verified accounts are using something greater than amber to auto-stuff.

And well, it's a rat race. If You don't wanna participate in rat race, botting shouldn't be really a concern to You. Only to big guys.


Only enforcing a good client and getting some GMs or CMs or whatever it is called, most (not all) of botting would be eliminated.