<rant> Why I didnt like this game

[NeoBasilisk]

I'm not trying to troll, but I feel like if you haven't even gotten to the point of making leather yet, then you really can't judge anything about the game systems.

[sabinati]

*moves a pawn*
chess is boring, guys

[Killshot47]

*moves a pawn*
chess is boring, guys

This nails it IMO

[Jackwolf]

These are some spirited responses. Glad to see that people are so passionate about this corner of the internet

We are quite passionate about this corner, some of us in more aggressive ways as each person has problem had their encounter with "your game sucks, you suck for playing it". Others take more offense from such statements and get easily defensive when their views are challenged.

Ok, but why did you not like the game?

Good question; it's not something that can easily be put into words

I implore you to try, as feedback is the in the nature of whats required in a game like haven.

Did you manage to create a shack and then you quit

It was a playsession that lasted until 4AM and my biggest achievement was making a pair of clogs. I never managed any clothes much less a shack

Haven is, unfortunately, not a game you can get very far or understand very much about in a single day. Unless you are versed in its mechanics and intricacies it can be difficult to advance at all if you are uncertain what is required of you. More often than not it helps most if you find someone who can tutor you in the systems so that they might be easier to understand, otherwise it's something that you simply must have the will and the wanderlust to power through and discover what is needed - by accident, if need be.

The downside is you have very few people working on it... too few, even. Ideas never get realized fast enough, bugs don't get fixed fast enough.

Big-budget devs often prove to be no different in this regard.
I assume you haven't heard of the Terse Brothers and their insane development and bugfix speed? New expansion every week~

I have heard of the Terse brothers, and it's safe to say they are no longer a duo group. Their development speed is happily attributed to contracting out for most all of their artwork - as it can be found by various artists on Artstation - and that they follow development guidelines that are already plotted out by numerous other app and facebook games. They are, still by all means, an impressive group.

This however does require you to acknowledge that Seatribe is not them. Every bit of art, even item, ever 3d rendering, every chicken, every badger, duck, horse, tree, house, rock was made by Jorb. Every string of code was put into effect by Loftar. Diving into the code of this game is like attempting to break apart the code of a BYOND game. The artwork and modelling flow together because they are done by a singular, consistent artist - like most good comic books.

It's a labor of love, not profit. If you don't love it, then at least good luck to you in the search for the "great game" you can play for years to come.

All of the games I have mentioned are the "great game" that kept me busy for years. I moved on only because I wanted something new after who knows how many hours spent

To us, this is one of our great games. This a game that has kept my interest for nine years (off and on, mind you). Neverwinter Nights is one of those games for me as well, and I can appreciate your background in it. NWN is, just the same, not a game for everyone - numerous friends of mine who are very deep into D&D have 0 interest in it whatsoever, while others close to me have seen it become one of their great games.

For me, this game will always be a great love. It's the closest I've seen or played to the game I myself wish I could be part of the creation of. Until that day changes I will likely still be here, supporting and defending this game that - over the years - has become a little bit of all of ours through suggestions made and changes we have caused by playing.


If you'd like to give it a second try I would be more than happy to help you, however you would like - barring just doing it for you, that gets no one anywhere. Though if you are thoroughly soiled in your opinion of the game due to lack of guidance know that you are not alone, but also know that given that Haven has no direct goal that being directed through its entirety is counter-intuitive to its design. The only middle ground is perhaps the addition of one, possibly two, more quests in the introductory. Going over Buying attributes and some other segments of the game's progress

[wonder-ass]

lol what you expect from a competitive full sandbox open world game?

[Sevenless]

>or at least a game where I don't have to fight the client to get anything done

This has been a longstanding contention with loftar. The community hates vanilla client and uses customs because of that.

> I am told that this is meant to be different for "what you're used to" and "i dont know what game you come from". It's true that I don't know what a pre-wow mmo is supposed to look like, because my only experience with pre-wow mmos is bouncing hard off of every private server game I have ever tried.

The only game that's "sorta similar" is Ultima Online I'd say. At this point I don't think it's even fair to expect new people to have played that so I call haven a unique butthole sandpapering experience.

> I also don't know what wow looks like, because I despise monoculture and go far out of my way to avoid it.

Tbh, doesn't matter one lick. This game and wow share the use of hotkey slots and that's about it.

> My reference points for multiplayer games are Freelancer, Neverwinter Nights, the near-defunct Allegiance, and the Freespace 2 modding community. I don't like what the fanbase is implying with "what game you come from".

I think the reason they say that is because like all MMOs there's a sort of unspoken understanding of what to expect from the game and how UI works. This helps people move from game to game within the genre (like how CTRL is, or was in my day when I could physically play those games, almost always default crouch in FPS). This is not an excuse, we've wrestled with the devs about the unintuitive and archaic user interface. I don't think it could modernize, but it could be better and better explained.

> Meanwhile the players fragment themselves into small, tight-knit discord groups that hide everything while they plot and scheme against each other.

This is actually a very new phenomena between the majority of the playerbase, big factions will always scheme/plot/hide things in a sandbox pvp game. See EVE as another example. Factions make up a very tiny amount of the total playerbase though. Between realms encouraging localization and discord making splinter groups so easy and convenient the game has become very quiet if you don't know where to go. I feel the forums have quieted a ton considering the number of players. Honestly it's mostly just the old guard who still come here and the odd newbie.

I'm not sure there's a good answer to this, but I was just complaining about this to a friend last night. "Go find a good realm!" isn't something that's realistic to expect of a newbie in a sandbox game. They get very attached to their first base. Global chat is a horrible idea too considering the game pop has gotten a little too big. Later game there will be fewer realms that should cover everything, but that's not really helping the first 3-4 months of a world.

The problem is that localization adds a lot to the game in its own way, and is important to PvP dynamics. I don't see a good solution other than to kill discord.

> There are people out there who have sold their house and their 401k so they have money to make the game that they want. Having run into such commitment I consider it perfectly reasonable to weigh small-time projects against big budget devs, and Seatribe is not meeting that standard.

Gonna be completely honest, budget is not the problem. The devs aren't really willing and/or able to work with others. This has been a longstanding issue that has slowed game development progress. At the very least it would help the client re-write and ui overhaul if they had more coding muscle. I don't know how much extra money they have to throw around, but I'm 100% certain it's not the problem. People from the community have offered to help at no cost and been turned down. That said I'm not certain how "quality" those coders have been, but surely one of them could have been useful somehow. Also several of the issues in vanilla client have been rejected as valid complaints by the devs due to aesthetics, which make the game significantly less playable (no grid mode, despite it being quite important for base design).

Besides which, they've developed this game from their parents basement since they were in college. Their financial situation isn't really privy to the playerbase, but they've not had much else in their working life other than haven to have accumulated assets to pawn off. You can't squeeze water from a rock as they say.

> I think i'll go back to dark souls pvp now. It's more pleasant then this

This is literally the only thing you've said that I think you're blowing smoke out your ass. Sure everything else you were particularly hostile over, but I'll forgive that because this game makes people rage when it goes bad for understandable reasons. I lost a 1500hr character back in W5 and I remember how that felt. But saying "I'm going to go back to playing a massively popular triple A game because it's more fun" is a pretty hollow and petty statement.

We get angry rant quit letters more or less every world start, sadly some of the complaints can't change and others the community has wrestled with the devs over for a long time. For the most part they have points that are worthwhile, but the expectation that the community has never tried to raise them to the devs has always struck me as odd. I've done what I could as a community member to help out newbies in the past, but development has been moving fast enough that I hate how fast my 100 hours of guide writing gets out-dated. Due to my wrist injuries typing that much becomes very painful, and I don't feel haven is suited to video guides.

Anyway, that aside, I do hope you find games that make you happy. Sorry this isn't the game for you, I've had many friends get turned off the game for various reasons so I know full well how hard it is as a newbie even with experienced players helping guide them.

[Embers]

Nice bait

[borka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2S-DEdWJO0