Do you think jorb still enjoys working on the game?

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Re: Do you think jorb still enjoys working on the game?

Postby Vert » Mon Aug 19, 2024 4:47 pm

Vert wrote:the developers listen to pvp players too often that's why the game became like this,
The levers of pressure on pvp children have been lost and we have what we have.

Well no, the developers have always wanted this to be somewhat of a competitive pvp game, as per this thread (actually read this if you seriously think the PvP Cabal “pressured” the devs into making a pvp game).
And, not for nothing, supposedly “evil” pvpers are constantly arguing for the removal of unfun and noobtrappy mechanics, which they have leveraged to great advantage, like whales for instance. I’d argue the mechanics that incentivize toxic play patterns are overwhelmingly added by the devs of their own stubborn/clueless volition.


in this link jorb says that there are no bad players who need to be punished, but there are actions of some and counteraction of others.
In order to resist attacks on the village, you could gather a crowd and catch a boor so that he would be treated for a long time, but pvp players want to be treated instantly and they were allowed to treat injuries in bed and if earlier a player needed from 1 to 3 days to recover, now he is healthy in 10 hours.
A character who surpasses the entire village in stats in case of defeat, will be ready to fight the next day. Will this village try to resist and do they have this opportunity.
no, these people were deprived of the opportunity to defend themselves, they were deprived of the opportunity to counter aggression. Even if they gather all their strength and miraculously manage to win a fight of 10 newbies to 1 super child, this person will recover and come the next day. It will be fun for him, there is no risk of dying or getting hurt, and only the opportunity to feel how good he is.

The same thing with needbanes, they were too strong (but even with such needbanes, fights took place and were not devastating) and now they are simply useless. Why was it necessary to remove the ability to counter aggressive players when the game is built on action and reaction.
A person commits crimes when it is convenient for him, you adjust to his time, call for help in the form of needbanes and go to counter, but no, let's do without needbanes. Here is the cooldown on needbanes when he wants, then he will fly, and he will also fly as much as he wants. If you want to use them, adjust.

Both requests for these changes were from PvP players. I can understand them, they like PvP and they want to participate in it, but here there is an injury and you can die and it is better not to go. On the other hand, they had the opportunity to make another character a little weaker as a replacement. Yes, it takes time, which would affect the strength of the first character, but didn't it help peaceful villages.
In the 15th world, a titan can come to you every day, if you defeat him, he will come the next day, but if he was treated for several days, he could be killed if he came the next day or you would have to go to another, weaker version of the character, and the titan himself would be weaker since the player would be pumping several characters.

With a long treatment of characters in the case of a village siege, the titan would be weakened after the knock, and by the end of the siege he would have a choice to possibly die but try to defend the village again or save the character. In the 10th world, when in my opinion the village was much more important than the character, people made the choice in favor of saving the characters. In the 15th world, the character is more important than the village. The character is more important than the village and more protected.

The time of healing from PvP injuries is an important characteristic during village sieges and when defending against a gang
Since we are making concessions to PvP players, maybe we should reduce the cost and speed of construction by 2 times?
Last edited by Vert on Mon Aug 19, 2024 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you think jorb still enjoys working on the game?

Postby abt79 » Mon Aug 19, 2024 4:47 pm

Robben_DuMarsch wrote:
abt79 wrote:Well no, the developers have always wanted this to be somewhat of a competitive pvp game, as per this thread (actually read this if you seriously think the PvP Cabal “pressured” the devs into making a pvp game).


PvP game? Yes.
Competitive PvP? That thread has no support for that conclusion.

Hey monkey,
that thread is very explicit that haven is (intended to be) competitive by its very nature. Every second in the world you are competing - for land, for resources; for anything that can give a progression advantage, for most of the things you can claim in game are zero-sum. As they say “If I claim some land you cannot also claim it, and if I own and item you cannot also own it” and so on. One could imagine a version of hafen where every new character was granted their own pocket instance world and imagine how it would be less competitive, as each player could have as much land as they want without having to deal with strangers

The argument they’re making is that the game’s inherent competitive nature makes pvp a necessary part of the equation, as players will have a desire to conquer others for their resources and just grief others since a competitive game world leaves that option available no matter what systems they formalize as combat or siege.

Reading comprehension skills allow you to understand the concept of “competition” without mention of the word itself. Keep on practicing!
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Re: Do you think jorb still enjoys working on the game?

Postby dafels » Mon Aug 19, 2024 4:50 pm

Yes they are working very hard on the game and enjoy it very much
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Re: Do you think jorb still enjoys working on the game?

Postby Biggus_DuDickus » Mon Aug 19, 2024 5:26 pm

abt79 wrote: ....haven is (intended to be) competitive by its very nature.....


ahaha .... Biggus is more competitive than this game is intended to be, for sure ... Biggus very competitive!!

Biggus says you are all degenerate and alienated little semblances of human beings who see competition everywhere even if through no fault of your own, you poor souls ... The original Dickus is right, as always.
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Re: Do you think jorb still enjoys working on the game?

Postby TheServant » Mon Aug 19, 2024 5:36 pm

abt79 wrote:Hey monkey,
that thread is very explicit that haven is (intended to be) competitive by its very nature. Every second in the world you are competing - for land, for resources; for anything that can give a progression advantage, for most of the things you can claim in game are zero-sum. As they say “If I claim some land you cannot also claim it, and if I own and item you cannot also own it” and so on. One could imagine a version of hafen where every new character was granted their own pocket instance world and imagine how it would be less competitive, as each player could have as much land as they want without having to deal with strangers

The argument they’re making is that the game’s inherent competitive nature makes pvp a necessary part of the equation, as players will have a desire to conquer others for their resources and just grief others since a competitive game world leaves that option available no matter what systems they formalize as combat or siege.

Reading comprehension skills allow you to understand the concept of “competition” without mention of the word itself. Keep on practicing!



resources in hnh is plently/rich enough in a way that enables every faction to achieve good progress, there is no aspect that enforces a need of competitive/clash of interests, its one of the reasons pvp happens when ppl want it to happen
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Re: Do you think jorb still enjoys working on the game?

Postby Biggus_DuDickus » Mon Aug 19, 2024 5:40 pm

Biggus is a great kind soul and wants to meet your mental capacity so he drew you a picture.
All praise to the great Biggus

Image

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Re: Do you think jorb still enjoys working on the game?

Postby Shitten_DuPants » Mon Aug 19, 2024 6:38 pm

Biggus_DuDickus wrote:Image

Wow what game is this? looks fun
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Re: Do you think jorb still enjoys working on the game?

Postby noindyfikator » Mon Aug 19, 2024 7:31 pm

Shitten_DuPants wrote:
Biggus_DuDickus wrote:Image

Wow what game is this? looks fun


Legacy haven and hearth
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Re: Do you think jorb still enjoys working on the game?

Postby Robben_DuMarsch » Mon Aug 19, 2024 8:11 pm

abt79 wrote:*angry chimp noises* + that thread is very explicit that haven is (intended to be) competitive by its very nature.


That's a lot of vanity, for you to assume the intent of Haven is to be competitive. Jorb gave us PvP. But you're wrong that the "intent" is that the game lead to conflict and competition.

Two children, one in India, the other in Brazil, each go to the beach one day. They both make sand castles. They never interact with each other. Then they leave.

Are they inherently in competition? What makes you think because competition is possible that it's the intended mode of play?

It's a sandbox, buddy. There is no victory condition. There is no winner or loser. You're making your own story and finding your own fun. The fact that "you people" (I am assuming you are with Snail, sorry if I'm wrong), seem to not understand that and insist the game should be built around your own vision of competitive play isn't constructive, it's just sad.

If you actually understand what Jorb wrote, you'd understand that he allows PvP because he views it as a means of conflict resolution. I think he's previously said in the past that one of the feelings he wants to capture in his game of the catharsis that comes from dealing with your pesky neighbor that ruined your farm.

It's a frankly misguided leap of logic to think that competition is the "intended" way to play the game. I don't think Jorb really has much intent on how the game should be played. If I had to guess, he's literally just giving us cool tools and putting random content in the sandbox and hoping we enjoy it, make cool things, and live out tiny fantastical human dramas.
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Re: Do you think jorb still enjoys working on the game?

Postby Robben_DuMarsch » Mon Aug 19, 2024 8:18 pm

Here, let me put it a simpler way for you:

DonVelD has to shid. He can't get back to his mom's place quick enough, because by then he would shid his pants. He goes to the public bathroom, and there are 4 stalls. One person is in stall #1. DonVelD goes and shids in stall #4. DonVelD leaves and doesn't wipe because he last did it 10 months ago and it isn't time yet.

Did DonVelD engage in competitive shidding? Who won? God gave DonVelD the ability to walk into stall #1 when it was still occupied, and shid on the shidder. Was this God's intent?
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