Russia invades Ukraine

[Jalpha]

Things have certainly escalated. It's still a strange war with both sides seeking to exploit refugees as a propaganda tool. It's hard to know what is really going on as the fog of war drifts over the battlefield.

Every nation in the world has trade partners and allies they defer to in order to get assistance if things go bad.

The west thought sanctions on Russia would be effective. Now the economic problems from the pandemic are being amplified globally. Joke's on us I guess.

[Zentetsuken]

Question for the edgelords and retards (you know who you are) -

Lets say Ukraine is definitely a country funded by America. That it definitely has some major political and economical investments there and that because of this political and economical influence slowly growing there and making the country lean more and more west, a conflict has been potentially brewing for the last decade that slowly lead us to the current bombing of Ukraine by Russia.

Lets say that the entire political situation is definitely not black and white, and definitely not as simple as "Putin is evil."

How does this make it hypocritical to care about a country getting bombed?
How does this make it bad to care that civilians are being executed and civilian buildings are getting bombed?

Lets say that America is literally 100% to blame for the current situation, unequivocally the instigator in a grand geopolitical economical conspiracy.

How does that make violence, war and killing people in another country even a little bit excusable?
How does the situation NOT being black and white make it difficult for you to sympathize with a country being invaded, or empathize with people getting murdered?

It seems to me that you couple edgelords in here "but america"ing over and over again have literally created your very own false dichotomy. You see that the most generic form of media is making the situation appear black and white and therefore you jump ship to the other extreme. You are literally manipulated and polarized just as much as one would be by watching the news like a "sheep," only you end up standing at the other side of the fence. What's worse is that you really believe you can stand there and strong-arm your own arguments and demonize the other side just by saying everybody else are bandwagonners, or "missing the deeper truths."

It seems to me that you are just as stupid, illogical and misguided as anybody who takes the news verbatim with the added penalty of further establishing yourselves as social outcasts, misfits, conspiracy nuts and genuinely very unlikable people.

You are just sheep with extra steps and less friends.

[Jalpha]

Don't try to simplify things aleck, it only makes you look stupid.

For one thing the west =/= USA. America is a term used by midwits.

I liked Ukraine and I liked Ukrainian people. I do not like that their stubborn position is now effectively taking money out of my pocket.

As a result my sympathy for their position is dwindling.

They wanted a losing fight with a greater power because they refused to submit to Russia. I do not see why the whole world should leap into this pit of quicksand trying to save them.

[Zentetsuken]

I don't know this seems like a pretty simple take on things.

Regardless of what word I used, the west or America, you stated you do not sympathize due to your hyper simplified take of the situation.

This is exactly what I just called you out for.

You took the common media narrative and decided to stand at the exact opposite side of the spectrum.

Still a sheep, but now also further concreting yourself as a miserable and psychopathic outcast.

[Jalpha]

My response is that I am much more proficient at simplifying things. Which is merely an opinion. Do you have anything more substantial to say than "muh feelings" or are you just here to shit up the thread?

[Mashadar]

My response is that I am much more proficient at simplifying things. Which is merely an opinion. Do you have anything more substantial to say than "muh feelings" or are you just here to shit up the thread?

Your opinion simply does not make a lot of sense. So according to you, if Russia went completely crazy and said it "wanted" control of the USA tomorrow and threatens to bring out the nukes, US Americans would be stupid and stubborn if they did not immediately surrender? It's purely their own fault if a nuke ends up dropping on NY?

[Jalpha]

Lefties huh.

A conflict of assured mutual destruction is nothing like Russian forces entering Ukraine. Not strategically, not economically and not culturally.

If you can't see the differences it is because you don't want to.

[Zentetsuken]

My response is that I am much more proficient at simplifying things. Which is merely an opinion. Do you have anything more substantial to say than "muh feelings" or are you just here to shit up the thread?

Your opinion simply does not make a lot of sense. So according to you, if Russia went completely crazy and said it "wanted" control of the USA tomorrow and threatens to bring out the nukes, US Americans would be stupid and stubborn if they did not immediately surrender? It's purely their own fault if a nuke ends up dropping on NY?

He's not here for discussion, I don't think he even has the ability to engage in an actual discourse anymore, his mental health after 5 years of living alone in hostels with drugs and alcohol is too far gone.
It's truly tragic, having this place as a personal blog to narrate his antisocial thoughts in is only serving to hurt him even more.

As you can see he doesn't answer any of our questions, and even when people seem to agree with him he just uses their acknowledgement as a platform to narrate another novella of unhinged hot takes.

Based on his snappy and bizarre replies it seems that he doesn't even appear to have the capacity to feel shame anymore.

Hopefully some of the other social misfits will answer my post instead.

[Mashadar]

As you can see he doesn't answer any of our questions, and even when people seem to agree with him he just uses their acknowledgement as a platform to narrate another novella of unhinged hot takes.

Yeah, I see how it is. I suppose I was curious how he would answer, but I didn't expect a complete deflection of the question, even though I should have.
I also should know better than to participate in political threads, so I'll see myself out.

[VDZ]

I don't know this seems like a pretty simple take on things.

Regardless of what word I used, the west or America, you stated you do not sympathize due to your hyper simplified take of the situation.

This is exactly what I just called you out for.

You took the common media narrative and decided to stand at the exact opposite side of the spectrum.

Still a sheep, but now also further concreting yourself as a miserable and psychopathic outcast.

It's an extremely insensitive way of putting it, and he's conflating the Ukrainian people with the Ukrainian government, but he's not wrong in that statement. The invasion could have been prevented if Ukraine had accepted Russian influence and distanced itself from NATO and the EU. They preferred a serious risk of invasion over acceding to Russia's demands. That does not make the Russian invasion just, but the Ukrainian government consciously chose to defy a more powerful nation that was threatening them, while not having sufficient power on its own to prevent such an invasion. It could well be argued that the Ukrainian government made the better choice in this lose-lose situation, but to say Ukraine did not prefer a war would simply be false, no matter how much Western propaganda tries to paint it as a sudden invasion out of nowhere.

For that matter, the increasingly forceful narrative that this attack was "unprovoked" is utter bullshit. NATO and the EU very clearly provoked this war by continuing to pull Ukraine closer to membership despite Russia's objections. NATO explicitly hard-refused Russian demands to deny Ukraine NATO membership and remove NATO troops from nations close to its borders, in spite of an increasingly agitated Putin's threats. Ten days prior to the invasion the Ukrainian government explicitly reaffirmed they want to join NATO and the EU, with explicit reference to Russian threats of war:

“Ambassador Prystaiko rightly noted in his interview that the prospect of Nato membership is established in the constitution of Ukraine, although Ukraine is currently not a member of Nato or any other security alliance,” wrote Oleg Nikolenko on Facebook.

“The key for us is the issue of security guarantees. Undoubtedly, the best such guarantee would be the alliance immediately accepting Ukraine. But the threats to Ukraine exist here and now, so the search for security guarantees becomes a fundamental and urgent task. At the same time, no decision can be made that contradicts the Ukrainian constitution.”

Asked whether or not Ukraine may reconsider its ambitions to join Nato, Prystaiko told the BBC in English: “No this is not and I am quite happy that I have this chance to clarify my position.”

Asked again if Ukraine was shifting its bid to become a Nato member, he said: “No.”

Prystaiko said the earlier BBC report was the result of a misunderstanding.

“We are not a member of Nato right now and to avoid war we are ready for many concessions and that is what we are doing in conversations with the Russians,” Prystaiko said. “It has nothing to do with Nato, which is enshrined in the constitution.

“It is not a delay to our ambitions to be in Nato – what we are talking about is that we are not in the family now so we have to look for something else like bilateral agreements with the UK, with the United States,” he said. “So on top of Nato, we are looking for some other arrangements which would allow us to survive at this particular ordeal right now.”

(source)

One could argue that the Russian demands were unreasonable and they shouldn't feel threatened just over NATO getting the ability to deploy military forces close to Russian strategic targets, but the invasion was definitely not unprovoked.