At the Crossroads of what is and what could be?

[SnuggleSnail]

Snail and his group have been playing since 2013 at minimum, which was almost 12 years ago lol.

Our group formed in 2019, although I personally wouldn't rly count us until 2021. I played for about 3-6 months before forming the group, and while all of us started playing before we formed I'd say about 80% of us had never been in a fight prior to joining.

[Nocturnal-Rainbows]

Why would people who don't even try to compete (as in, 95%+ of people that play this game) care enough about other people ALLEGED botting to quit the game?

Because this is a multiplayer game with ''''''''permadeath''''''''' (lol i know) PvP. Whether they like it or not it matters how far ahead others are because in this game you can exert your power over others. I like that aspect of the game, it's why I play. I bully my neighbours and make them move so I have less competition on the resources around me. All that shit is good, I fuckin' love it.
Where it becomes a problem is when fucking CODING is a required skill because manually doing something like the pie making shit I did in W10 (I know I keep bringing it up and that pies have long since dropped off but it's just an example) was fucking mind numbing and yet doing in manually requires so much clicking and inventory management and fiddly shit like fueling and lighting ovens that is completely unfeasible to keep up with those that are botting the exact same thing.

You seem to think I'm unreasonable, I'm not unreasonable. Meet me halfway and I'll accept. If it's widely concluded that manually doing something like the above is cancerous (which it is, but it was only as bad for me because I was trying to keep my stats high enough to remain competitive when I needed to fight) then I'd accept some bots being added to the default client. J&L should work with these client makers to make 1 client that everyone can be happy with and then enforce people to use that singular client.

I think the fault is based on how many fucking chores you have to do everyday to play long-term, you login everyday to harvest your farm, feed your animals, herd these animals, then possibly move cheese/silk, and only then you are able to do stuff like mining or hunting (which i consider A LOT more fun than the previous chores). You'd have to be seriously autistic to actually enjoy this chore simulator.

I completely and wholeheartedly agree with you on this. 100% btw. That shit you've just mentioned in that one paragraph? THAT is why I quit every world. I wish I could avoid that burn out to die by some PvP gank or something, fucking anything else would be more exciting, but that point of the game you've just brought up always kills me before anybody else can.
We are in complete agreement there. Seriously. The game asks way too much in the chores department when you get to that stage.
Once you get to the point where you're harvesting your crops, storing them away, replanting them, feeding the animals, needing to build another surplus of curios, needing to feed your character and everything that entails before you can even THINK of doing anything else, it's too fucking much. I always know when I'm about to burn out because I'll reluctantly start logging in, doing the above then logging off without doing anything else. That'll go on for another week+ before I drop out completely.

This is also the reason why people bot the aforementioned chores, should the mechanics be adjusted to waste less of your time? Yes. Should there be some way to perhaps automate some of these chores with like hearth magic or tamed gnomes, etc.? Yes. Are the bots reason for ppl to quit? No, they are the reasons some people don't quit (others just enjoy doing same shit everyday for months on end).

So then put them in the default client. Have it be part of the game. If it's part of the game and everyone gets the same benefits it's not an issue. I'd still complain about alts in that situation but it would still change the perception of bots being something for 'the chosen villages/players who just so happen to have a coder handy' to 'well everyone has access to them and thinks they're a necessary evil because logging in to do chores for hours each day is cancerous and burn-out inducing without them'

I almost skipped over your post but I'm actually glad I went back to read it because it mirrors my thoughts a lot more than I expected it to.

[Kaios]

Hes talking about a hypothetical thing that could exist. Also apparently ND client is going public so you can see for yourself the features it has.

To clarify, I'm hypothesizing that the same implementations that notify of animals could just as easily be used to notify upon players as well. Whether or not many factions are doing that I don't know. Pinging to discord for animal nodes is not a fabrication, however. Why do you think Nightdawg would even specify that as being one of the main reasons he made his suggestion if it were something he only believed existed?

[joojoo1975]

i already answered what kaois wrote about ND client, its literally the exact same client ive been using and this feature doesnt exist. Hes talking about a hypothetical thing that could exist. Also apparently ND client is going public so you can see for yourself the features it has.
You wrote about the 5k str thing which I told you was a bait, you don't seem to realize youre being trolled in that discord even when people are literally laughing at your for getting baited you still keep getting baited. Can you explain the mechanisms or bots which would lead to a char getting 5k str in 1 month? Ofc you can't. You don't seem to know very much about this game or how it works.

Classic sheep here. he asks one question, it is answered, then he rants about something else while TOTALLY IGNORING the fact he got his question answered and he never address that. And I was baited? Please explain to me how I was baited? since you know so much about everything?

You just kinda outed yourself as a bit of a clueless noob because pies are shit and its also trivial as fuck to mass produce them. Why do you need a bot lmao.

Again classic sheep. his same formula just goes on and on with asking a question and then ranting about something else while again TOTALLY IGNORING the fact his question was answered. Sheep are YOU a forums bot? FFS man. Read.

My fights are all on youtube. Beat AD every fight of this world and the last. Killed felix this world. Beat Ozzys group multiple worlds. Won first meteor fights multiple worlds in a row. Who else is even worth mentioning? Sure we wiped arcanum a few times too. I got all my receipts this world + last world. Ofc as a nobody, you wouldnt know antyhing about what goes on in the pvp scene. My villagers all started in the last 4 worlds some even just this world.

Now I am going to use your Logic. How do we know that's you in the vids, how do we know you didn't bot, how do we know that wasn't staged. how do we know that's not photoshopped. Granted this is taking it to a Rather ABSURD degree, but you been doing the same thing throughout this thread.

I didnt say I asked the villages who bots I just asked felix and he said he didnt and I believed him because who gives a fuck about lying lol nobody cares I wouldnt care even if he did have all kinds of bots, were all too old and retarded to care in this gay and age about lying about shit like this

OK so I guess he can't lie to you, RIGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHT! and why would he cause old and gay or whatnot.

Read wat I put, I cant name 1 new village. The game doesnt get new players. Where is it marketed? If 1 half decent wow guild, or eve guild or a tryhard rust group or ark (or any competitive sandbox game) joined haven, they would prosper and be a top group. It really aint that difficult. The few stragglers this game manages to pick up usually just end up in WB which to be fair can be considered a reasonably successful new group at this point. Even if its got some old players at the helm.

there are new players for a game this size. sure it could increase, hence the steam release. But people from WoW or EVE wouldn't want to be here Because of the Botting. Eve especially deals with botting time and time again.

[Nocturnal-Rainbows]

I wonder what his excuse is going to be when an influx of thousands of new steam users show up and do literally nothing in W16.
It's already pretty embarrassing to claim that the game has no new players. It still gets advertised via word of mouth before each new world begins, new people are joining, the majority of them just don't stick around when they find out all of the odds are stacked against them.

[MightySheep]

Classic sheep here. he asks one question, it is answered, then he rants about something else while TOTALLY IGNORING the fact he got his question answered and he never address that. And I was baited? Please explain to me how I was baited? since you know so much about everything?

How did I ignore it? I directly responded to kaois claim by saying I literally have the client in question and this bot doesnt exist. I answered your claim of a 5k str char by telling you it doesnt make sense and you got baited. It's not real, what more do you want me to say about it? Stop getting baited by Snail. Find a new source of information.

I believe the guy who said he botted pies I didnt ignore it. Bots like fueling ovens are probably not that hard to make. I just questioned why in that particular example does it matter? It's an extremely trivial and easy task and its one of the worst foods that exist in the game currently and has been since w10. Everybody good has shown their satiations and food cupboards, nobody is eating pies except maybe orca meat pies which require eggs, the hard part is hardly cooking them.

I wonder what his excuse is going to be when an influx of thousands of new steam users show up and do literally nothing in W16.
It's already pretty embarrassing to claim that the game has no new players. It still gets advertised via word of mouth before each new world begins, new people are joining, the majority of them just don't stick around when they find out all of the odds are stacked against them.

There wont be an influx of thousands of people Ive seen alot of steam releases its rarely that big for a game like this. I have more faith in there being an influx of returning players than in new steam players.

This game by its very design is not going to appeal to the majority and will have very low player retention. Its a perma death full loot pvp game. Even if there is a lot of good new players they wont be relevant this world since it takes about 1 world to figure out what youre doing. Most of the skill in this game is about knowledge and experience and new players are likely to just do stupid things like eat pies and brick their hunger level before they fully figure out the game systems. Its possible that a highly competent group could be relevant on the world they started though since its so easy these days with equalized UA etc. Usually it requires having experienced players show you the ropes though. Maybe WB will train some new competent players this world.

Botting doesnt really have anything to do with why good players are good. Maybe if you stop telling yourself excuses like these you would start to look into the real reasons why you fall behind and discover the correct foods to eat etc.

[TheServant]

dunno why the big deal about botting when the real problem is obscure exploits, botting is always less optimal than investing 12h/day in the game

[MightySheep]

neither botting nor obscure exploits is a big deal tbh

forum is just pretty dead so a couple of whiners make it seem like a big deal

all the obscure exploits been fixed over time, there used to be loads now theres nothing, even that wall extending thing got patched last owrld after this

botting has the potential to be a big deal but the hard truth of the matter is its just not, u can probly count the bots big factions are using on 1 hand and you can see the client leaderboard here https://www.havenandhearth.com/portal/cltrack/ its 90% public shit

[axus]

Any group that doesn't bot is irrelevant

[Dawidio123]

So then put them in the default client. Have it be part of the game.

Then instead of asking devs to ban botters and prevent alts (both are a huge ask tbh and a lot of continuous effort which they won't do), ask them to either make the mechanics we both hate less time consuming/automated through ingame mechanics and thus less prone to botting, or straight up ask loftar to put bots in the default client. There is always the option of making your own public client with all these bots but ain't nobody want to put in that kind of effort except maybe like the nurgling guy.

Like, nobody is against making botting less of a need, or new ingame ways of automating things. Why can't we connect multiple spitroast together so one character can spin a dozen of them at the same time, hell make some hearth magic that just permanently spins the spitroast, idk 500 xp per spitroast or something.