Russia invades Ukraine

[Jalpha]

Look how much this war is costing us and we don't even have boots on the ground. Imagine how we would be beggared if we deployed troops. The east can convert to a war economy much more easily than the west.

I read that Russia may need to begin conscription because it looks like their current military is too small to take Ukraine. If so Finland is next. Once momentum builds it is difficult to stop.

Soon there may be no Den Haag.

All media reports I have read indicate support for Putin is growing within Russia. Though if the opposite is true I would be interested to know. If Putin were to stand trial in a foreign nation it would need to be Russians who would send him there.

Even if he were to be deposed (something I consider highly unlikely at this time) I hold strong doubts that Russia would hand him over to the west.

Artemis is more important than Ukraine.

[Zentetsuken]

Look how much this war is costing us and we don't even have boots on the ground. Imagine how we would be beggared if we deployed troops. The east can convert to a war economy much more easily than the west.

What parts of the east do you think are having an easy time right now? What parts of the west are having a very difficult time? I think we need some citations.

I read that Russia may need to begin conscription because it looks like their current military is too small to take Ukraine. If so Finland is next. Once momentum builds it is difficult to stop.

You are saying that if Russia begins conscription that Finland will be invaded next? Based on what evidence? This is a very strange inference.

Soon there may be no Den Haag.

???????????????????????

All media reports I have read indicate support for Putin is growing within Russia.

It sounds like you are not using very many sources or not doing a lot of reading.

Artemis is more important than Ukraine.

Hot take.

[Jalpha]

My only source of media information is the ABC News (AUSTRALIAN Broadcasting Commission specifically). You can argue that I am cherry picking sources and I would argue the same.

If I had a way to set up my laptop from here I would meme you into the stone Age about soaring energy, fuel and food prices, rising interest rates and anything else I could find. Seems you have your head buried in the sand. It looks like the Evergrande crises is resolving. This might be a turning point for the Chinese economy.

Finland is not in NATO. Off the top of my head nor is Sweden. If unstoppable war momentum fueled by a war economy imposed upon Russia by the west is built and, given Russias emphasis on cultural heritage etc, Thier reciprocal relationship with China and growing western hostility... It seems logical to me that conflict would be most easily funnelled through Finland.

Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands. It's a long shot for sure but with Russias marine superiority (arguably, submarines though) crossing open water would be dangerous for NATO forces. I'd be surprised if it reached this point but I do consider it a possibility.

Return on investment for supporting Ukraine is low. Artemis has a much higher potential ROI. I'm not afraid of the east. I'm not globohomo so I have no reason to be. China or Russia could invade Australia tomorrow and I would simply continue with my business plans. It doesn't matter to me who rules. I align with neither culture. Economics is more important to me.

[Sholom]

All media reports I have read indicate support for Putin is growing within Russia.

It sounds like you are not using very many sources or not doing a lot of reading.

I can confirm that from within, this part is true.
The sanctions aimed at common folk backfired (if their goal was ever to push Russians to revolt, as many people seem to think) and people who were on the fence are leaning closer to Putin now.
And even the ones opposing the guy are now too busy looking for jobs, vital medicine and feminine hygiene products, to keep trying to help Ukraine as much as they did at the beginning.
Pro-government propaganda is now dominating the info field due to censorship restrictions.
Also a huge misconception people from the first world countries seem to have is that Russians would be outraged by decreasing standards of living and will take it out on the government.
No, it is exactly the opposite, partially due to the standards never being high to begin with.
So yes, his popularity is growing unfortunately.

[Zentetsuken]

My only source of media information is the ABC News (AUSTRALIAN Broadcasting Commission specifically). You can argue that I am cherry picking sources and I would argue the same.

you are cherry picking

If I had a way to set up my laptop from here I would meme you into the stone Age about soaring energy, fuel and food prices, rising interest rates and anything else I could find. Seems you have your head buried in the sand. It looks like the Evergrande crises is resolving. This might be a turning point for the Chinese economy.

nobody in this thread is interested in your memes, this is a serious discussion

Finland is not in NATO. Off the top of my head nor is Sweden. If unstoppable war momentum fueled by a war economy imposed upon Russia by the west is built and, given Russias emphasis on cultural heritage etc, Thier reciprocal relationship with China and growing western hostility... It seems logical to me that conflict would be most easily funnelled through Finland.

Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands. It's a long shot for sure but with Russias marine superiority (arguably, submarines though) crossing open water would be dangerous for NATO forces. I'd be surprised if it reached this point but I do consider it a possibility.

this is not a logical inference at all, it is a wild an illogical inference based on a series of your highly subjective understanding of events and held together with vague and bizarre assumptions

Return on investment for supporting Ukraine is low.

This is such an edgelord take. If you were the one in a country being bombed with no way to escape and support from other nations and the compassion and empathy of strangers who want to save lives was your only hope for survival you would be on your knees begging for support and offering to knob slobber all those who provide it.

Artemis has a much higher potential ROI. I'm not afraid of the east. I'm not globohomo so I have no reason to be. China or Russia could invade Australia tomorrow and I would simply continue with my business plans. It doesn't matter to me who rules. I align with neither culture. Economics is more important to me.

Artemis means nothing to you and nothing for you beyond fodder for your armchair science-adjacent blog postings. You aren't going to space, you aren't qualified or educated enough to benefit from or analyse anything that is gained from Artemis and you have absolutely no family or loved ones that will benefit from any of your investment in it at some future time.

Stop edgelording in this thread.
We get it, you are not a regular socialized man, you really don't need to prove it anymore, you are WELL aware of what this community thinks about you.

[shubla]

Russian navy is shit.
Ever seen pride of their fleet, the mighty flagship Admiral Kuzentsov? check out the video above.
Russia is very poor country, and small money that they have goes mostly to corruption, their ships are not modern and are very badly maintained.

UK/US etc. nato countries navies are way better.

NATO would win Russia in baltic sea conflict very easily, if they did not have nuclear weapons to retaliate.

submarines

Submarines aren't probably very useful in the Baltic because its a relatively shallow inland sea.
Both Sweden and Finland have installed extensive sonar monitoring equipment all over their coasts to detect possible submarines.

I think that ships near coast are a bit outdated also, sounds very easy to just shoot some high accuracy missile to them from the shore? I guess no one really knows before such conflict occurs.

[Jalpha]

The sonar systems did not prevent Russian subs from tampering with communication cables just prior to Russia entering Ukraine or they were detected hence the allegations against Russia?

Russia seems very proud of its submarine fleet. Their submarines seem superior to those operated by other nations. They seem like an excellent counter to aircraft carriers, which the USA relies on heavily.

I had forgotten about the importance of anti-ship missiles. Australia has been upgrading their fleet and missiles seem to be the only weapon system being installed on the new boats. I suppose anti-ship missiles are more effective in the Baltic given how thin it is.

Russian missile factories are burning midnight oil right now.

@Sholom Thanks for the perspective. Seems my media source is providing a reasonable interpretation of events.

@aleck The left should not be guiding us through these times. We are going to suffer for it. Your post is transparent bait, I can see the hook. You need to actually contribute to the conversation if you want to be taken seriously. Maybe it's time for you to grow up? We are seriously starting to find a potential WW3 scenario rising on the horizon. It's a concern how so many westerners are caught up in frenzied, delusional fantasies instead of examining the facts pragmatically. Don't be part of the problem.

[shubla]

The sonar systems did not prevent Russian subs from tampering with communication cables just prior to Russia entering Ukraine or they were detected hence the allegations against Russia?

Well they're not preventive measures, but rather step towards prevention by finding the submarines and taking away their most important feature, stealth.
The cable thing was suspicious but I think that they concluded it was probably not anything intentional. There are problems with those cables surprisingly often after all.
In a conflict situation there aren't many ways to defend those cables anyways, especially oceans are vast and deep.

I'm pretty sure that if you'd snap the cables with submarine, there would be some tracks left in the sonar logs.

I suppose anti-ship missiles are more effective in the Baltic given how thin it is.

That's what I thought as well, one could shoot them from land very easily provide tracking via drones and whatnot.

[VDZ]

Soon there may be no Den Haag.

Before they get to The Hague they'd have to to go through

• Ukraine (which they're still stuck on even though NATO isn't even fighting)
• All of Poland
• All of Germany
• Most of the Netherlands, because The Hague is located on the opposite side

They'd trigger a full-scale war with NATO if they invade Poland, and they have to go through territories very near other NATO members on the way there (most notably France, which they'd be fighting at the same time Germany goes all-out). Trying to invade via the North Sea is likewise a death sentence even disregarding the feasibility of a naval-only invasion in 2022, as it's shared by not just The Netherlands but also the UK, Germany and France (and Belgium and Norway I guess). Conquering The Hague would involve conquest of all of Europe, which I highly doubt the military currently still stuck at the outer edges of a literally-who country is capable of.

Russia seems very proud of its submarine fleet.

Russia also seemed proud of their army, and look where that brought them. At this point they just want to get concessions from Ukraine and go home. Any world domination plans will have to wait until they've regrouped and improved their military.

[Jalpha]

Screenshot_2022-03-24-09-53-47-25_3d9111e2d3171bf4882369f490c087b4.jpg

This way makes things more interesting. AFAIK Russia has no cultural interest in Poland or Germany. If Russia wanted to send a message to Den Haag then this is the way I suspect they would take.

Den Haag is a long way from Finland and Sweden though and the route passes through NATO member states which would obligate NATO to deploy troops.

We will see how things play out over the next decade.

I think Russia intends to landlock Ukraine before they withdraw from greater Ukraine to ensure Ukrainian compliance in the future and make profit from shipping.