At the Crossroads of what is and what could be?

[MightySheep]

I can't even imagine that being people's reason for playing. There's been so many better games that cater to PvP and skill expression.

I can't even imagine why ppl would play this for pve. There's a million better sandbox pve games. There's only 1 permadeath open world pvp game. If ur playing this game for pve u just lack knowledge about games imo. The fact that ur go-to list of games to brag about are absolutely ancient shit games reinforces that. Try some new shit.

If u think u can't fight outnumbered in haven just look at some felix videos 3v10 etc vs good players from this world even. Vs bad players I've seen ppl solo entire villages. If u think nobody drop in fights look at how the entire WB zerg got KOd in 1 fight. Ofc he can't 1v3 in the ant dungeon cuz were not shitters lol + he was trapped- outplaying is mostly about mobility

Ofc its got nothing on albion pvp in terms of skill etc the skill ceiling is extremely low here but albion pvp doesn't have the same hype it's not the same as running into ppl in the wild in a sandbox game and risking all ur effort

Anyway there's no such thing as a truly pve player in a pvp game like this. Another word for these ppl is just 'victims' if that's wat u choose to be then so be it. Enjoy getting bullied like a cuck

[wolf1000wolf]

... There's a million better sandbox pve games...

Other than EVE, what's a good sandbox mmo with extensive crafting, building and trade?

Afaik, Palia was total crap. Bitcraft and Stars Reach both aren't out yet.

[MightySheep]

Other than EVE, what's a good sandbox mmo with extensive crafting, building and trade?

Theres a lot that are sort of similar but not quite the same because of limited server sizes so I wont recommended. For me personally if I wanted a game almost exactly like haven but with just a pve focus Id probably play wurm online because you keep your progress. You can develop stats for years/decades and you can spend months terraforming a village and then itl still be there years later etc. It has all the trade, crafting and building and everything but its more in depth. Also I think I heard life is feudal is getting a new map next week or something but thats pvp. Not that wurm is new but it at least gets developed still. There are a lot of new open world sandbox survival games but they are mostly pvp focused

[Kaios]

I was regularly 1 vs 8+ people in Lineage 2. Me and my m8 where killing off groups who had p2w donators buying +16 gear and boss jewels with IRL money while we were underleveled and in dogshit unenchanted/+3 gear.

This is straight up lying. If you have any video evidence I would like to look on it. But I don’t think so, because this is just obvious bullshit.

If that was on private server with buffer and retarded late chonicles I still won't belive you

Why did you even bring this up and argue about it? Are you unable to contribute to the discussion in any sort of meaningful capacity at all? Who cares about lineage.

I can't even imagine why ppl would play this for pve. There's a million better sandbox pve games.

The argument doesn’t work quite as well that way, without the PvP stuff I think this game would still appeal to many PvE oriented players. There aren’t really many games like this one at all, they may share some similarities but Haven & Hearth is fairly unique which is in my opinion one of the reasons why the same people come back to play a new world again and again.

You mentioned Wurm... so that’s one. Any others?

[MightySheep]

wurm is just the most similar one thats mostly pve focused

I dont rly know the pve ones that well cuz I have no interest in those but I feel like I see random open world survival sandbox pve games with building on steam and in trailers all the time to the point where im like damn rly another one? the pve , crafting and base building in conan exiles, ark, atlas, life is feudal, empyrian and myth of empires is better than this though but those are pvp games, I cant rly claim to have played any pve sandbox games I only know wurm because it had pvp servers

I just dont think the pve in this game is that interesting. You can be part of big projects in wurm and I can go play 10 years later and still be like "I helped build this giant tunnel through the mountain" or giant collosus statue ontop of the big monument etc. You can do so much more with the terraforming and constructing of bases. Even minecraft is more interesting in that regard than haven. If you get a lucky dice roll and craft and insanely rare item in wurm its still valuable way later, even equipment made from unique monsters like dragons still probably hold value a decades later. Haven for pve is just a weird choice to me its really hard for me to see what you can even do thats creative or unique

[Kaios]

wurm is just the most similar one thats mostly pve focused

Fair enough, I do agree that it does share many similarities with the pve elements in this game. I have never actually had much interest in Wurm myself, I don't know what it is about it maybe the graphics style but I just never played it much at all. Minecraft however I do still play even to this day, once in a blue moon. Life is Feudal (the mmo and Your Own version) were/are both terrible.

Most players that play this game for the pve likely do play those other types of games too, but in Haven & Hearth to me it simply does a better job of combining all those similar mechanics together in a way that makes it more appealing to play especially during the early world phase. Being free to play also has a lot to do with it, if Wurm did not require uncapping skills with a subscription I think it would probably have more players interested in giving it a chance for awhile.

I don't agree that mechanics in Minecraft or other similar types of games like terraforming or base construction are necessarily more (or less) interesting, the way these things occur in those games are rather different and they all have their own pros and cons. One of the things I like doing in Haven & Hearth is constructing road networks, and I don't only mean a road going from Point A to Point B, but rather setting up travel hubs on walled claims around various parts of the map that connect to each other and branch out to other locations. Sure I could perhaps do something similar in Minecraft, but it's just not the same when you compare it to a world that feels more "alive" in terms of activity.

Haven for pve is just a weird choice to me its really hard for me to see what you can even do thats creative or unique

In past worlds there have been many great markets and other community projects created, we don't really see those too much any more. I dunno if we wanna get into why that is the case though... I'm sure there are several factors that may have contributed.

[joojoo1975]

wurm is just the most similar one thats mostly pve focused

I played Wurm, for a bit years ago.

Back then I was a quality 90ish LW

back then, there were a lot of Dead areas/servers

Back then game was in a clunky 3D perspective

The Quality of the stuff was mainly on skills with the help of good tools, and EVERYTHING was click, click, click.

I played Wurm, actually subscribed to it, and still came back to H&H. There may be some other games that are close to H&H or like H&H (salem) but they just not H&H enough to keep my interest

[Nocturnal-Rainbows]

I can't even imagine why ppl would play this for pve. There's a million better sandbox pve games. There's only 1 permadeath open world pvp game. If ur playing this game for pve u just lack knowledge about games imo. The fact that ur go-to list of games to brag about are absolutely ancient shit games reinforces that. Try some new shit.

The new shit sucks ass which is why I still look back fondly on the old games.
2 games I see you bringing up alot. Wurm and Albion. I've played both. Wurm came out in 2006, just 3 years after Lineage 2. I didn't like Wurm for the very reason you said it's better, which is the lack of server wipes.
If I log into haven now and walk around, the map is covered in bases, be they active or abandoned, doesn't matter, the fact is they're everywhere. The world no longer feels exciting, it doesn't feel like it's worth exploring, it lacks that sense of wonder that a new world has.
Haven and Hearth is all about the journey, that's why I keep coming back to play it every wipe. The journey, because the end goal itself is actually shit.
As for Albion, well, I heard about it years ago when its release was getting shilled on /v/ as the 'next big pvp game'. Played it day 1 for like a week and found it extremely underwhelming. It got shit on after release by everyone and then forgotten. It's been sitting in my steam library collecting digital dust ever since.

Just to come back to 1 thing you said because I want to thoroughly laugh at it even more just because of how absurd it is.
>The fact that ur go-to list of games to brag about are absolutely ancient shit games reinforces that.
Wurm is ancient, Albion isn't but it's still not a new game, but guess what retard? Haven and Hearth is ancient too. You're playing and bringing up nothing but ancient games too. Most modern games are soulless slop that are outdone by old games in their respective genre. If I want to play a Roguelike what is my go-to? Some new game? No, it's Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup.

Anyway there's no such thing as a truly pve player in a pvp game like this. Another word for these ppl is just 'victims' if that's wat u choose to be then so be it. Enjoy getting bullied like a cuck

I've said numerous times that I do pvp. Every world. Apparently, you don't seem to think PvP exists or is happening unless it's between our loudest big mouths on the forum and being recorded to be posted on The Moot and then uploaded onto youtube with the most ass music you've ever heard plastered over it?

Many of my suggestions I post are pro-PvP too, so don't pull that 'you just want to pve' shit with me. I said I don't particularly find the pvp in this game to be exciting or skillful, and I stand by that, but I do still PvP regardless of that because I like loot. I don't attack every spruce I see because they're not worth attacking. I can and do attack people who look like they're worth attacking (within reason ofc, I'm obviously not going to attack somebody who looks like they can fuck my shit up)

Perhaps you just lack the ability to understand nuance. I can like the thrill of playing in a permadeath full loot pvp game without actually liking the combat which I find to be very shallow and boring.
Every other game I've listed has movement and positioning be a key part to combat, that isn't new, it's expected. Haven PvP combat goes overboard on that aspect. You have to have some form of autism to find playing take aim, take aim, take aim, chase, drink, chase, drink, click bunny, chase, drink, take aim 10x more times, chase, kito x3, chase, drink to be fun and interesting PvP. 9 times out of 10 it isn't even PvP, it's just 1 group chasing the other and either catching up because the other guys don't know how to run and killing them without the other guys actually fighting back or the other gets away. There's rarely a back and forth.

Also the combat has been watered down even further by making archery shit. Archery added another dynamic to PvP, made groups have more varied compositions but as per usual our supposed 'big boy pvpers' cried their eyes out and got it nerfed into worthlessness, as they do with everything after they get exposed for being crying shitters.
Look at the SoS situation. WB fucks you up in one world using it and it's been nonstop tears about how unfair it is poor you.
Look at the cave claiming situation. Snail and co get merc'd because they fucked around and found out and there's nonstop tears about that too.

I suggest a PvP/PvE end game dungeon and all of the PvPers shit themselves because they will have to fight straight up in an area with limited space to run where death is a guarantee for the loser but they don't like that despite claiming they like permadeath because...?

Because the well-known pvpers are the biggest casuals and crybabies we have.

That's the real redpill.

[ZamAlex]

Help, I'm suffocating in letters!!

[MightySheep]

Also the combat has been watered down even further by making archery shit. Archery added another dynamic to PvP, made groups have more varied compositions but as per usual our supposed 'big boy pvpers' cried their eyes out and got it nerfed into worthlessness, as they do with everything after they get exposed for being crying shitters.
Look at the SoS situation. WB fucks you up in one world using it and it's been nonstop tears about how unfair it is poor you.
Look at the cave claiming situation. Snail and co get merc'd because they fucked around and found out and there's nonstop tears about that too.

I suggest a PvP/PvE end game dungeon and all of the PvPers shit themselves because they will have to fight straight up in an area with limited space to run where death is a guarantee for the loser but they don't like that despite claiming they like permadeath because...?

Because the well-known pvpers are the biggest casuals and crybabies we have.

That's the real redpill.

On the topic of archery, a lot of ppl think its actually still pretty decent and underutilized. Its something that kind of needs to suck because it literally bypasses the combat mechanics, nobody wants a world of archery meta, it would be ridiculous

We invented the SoS meta, someone in our village thought of it and we tried it in a fight vs AD and I posted a video then it slowly caught on throughout the world, mainly after the meteor fights. As you say the game already has no skill, this meta was probably the lowest skill form of pvp haven has ever seen its literally just mashing 1 button with no coordination or shotcalling required. Nobody objectively evalutating the difference between combat post SoS meta and before would ever arrive at the conclusion that this is good for the game. I think you already know it was a joke how bad that SoS meta was.

The WB siege was way later when everyone in my village had already quit but WB got massacred in those fights. Nobody really uses the moot anymore except WB so videos werent posted but I managed to find the attacker perspective I agree haven videos are boring as hell though so watever but dont get fooled by the WB spam in moot lol it was a 1 sided bloodbath. I literally ran into their safe pali 1v4 at one point and they still couldnt KO me. Our guys got a key from outside and ran in afterwards and I survived. What fight did WB ever win? Their claim to success was they got some alts to bash a catapult at 5am.

Im not sure what the cave claiming situation is. All I know is the thing where snails group abused some kind of trap by spamming visitor gates at the entrance to every cave around WB and KOd some people. Why would they be crying about that?

Why would PvPers not want a pvp dungeon? Where is this thread and who is shitting themselves? sounds funny to me but obviously its not gonna be a popular idea

You claim to like pvp but also not like pvp and you keep saying well known pvpers are shit but also you cant beat them because of some secret insurmountable advantages or something. Do you really not see the copium in your logic? If you were better at the game do you really think youd still be crying this much? ur a fish crying about the sharks while u eat the plankton and bragging about it. every post is bitterness against the sharks for being better than u, calling them crybabies, casuals, unfair advantage abusers, etc just accept the truth that ur getting outplayed in a low skill game thats all it is