Education is overrated.

[Zentetsuken]

I generalised. Most people who value money more than anything are shallow and boring.

you live in a car, how many extremely rich people do you meet on a regular basis in order to make this judgement?

Really it depends what you intend to do with the money. The rothschilds or whoever are arguably the richest family around. They do nothing of value or note with their finances. I watched some 8nterview on one of them and the most interesting thing he did with his life was an admittedly very impressive insect collection.

so you watched 1 documentary about a rich family and decided that since his hobby is something that doesn't interest you that all rich people are boring? sounds like the opinion of somebody who doesn't value education.

[Reyajh]

Wait a minute... I got my GED!!! I got a golden ticket!!!

[shubla]

Regarding schools in finland and charging for education:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OvVPg3y_ug

Whole movie is worth a view, regardless what you think about the one who made it.

Finland will soon be in bottom of the list due to the new study plans published. Basically there is a "ops/opintosuunnitelma", a plan published by the ministry of education in 2016 that every school (only up to high school) must follow. The latest plan sucks, and I am sure that Finland will drop a lot in all education-related statistics due to that.

They are basically trying to replace the current system with some completely new and utterly stupid one. The current one (or previous one these days) worked just fine!

Also we have a new ministry in education than one in that video. The new one is really bad! She is retarded and coming up with all these bad decisions!

For example, evaluation by exams will be replaced with peer-evaluation and other garbage. Retarded kids will be merged into the normal kids group (causing suffering for all the others, because the problem cases require a lot of attention from the teacher, thus reducing the amount of time that teacher can use on all the normal kids) They also want to replace classrooms with other things. They say that "the city is the school", meaning that instead of teaching in a classroom, teaching could happen in other places around the city.

I think that education in Finland is good, or at least has been good, because the teachers are well educated. No other reasons really.

What comes to standardized testing, I think Finland needs more of those. Currently you will get your final grades from the last 3 years that you are in primary school, average from all evaluation, no final exams or such, then you apply for high school (or vocational school) with those grades. The problem is that different schools/teachers have different standards for giving out grades. The rating is a number from 4 to 10, you can get 7 in one school and 9 in other, with the same amount of skill. And high schools certainly are not as "equal" as primary schools, some of them have a lot more funding than others.

[AntiBlitz]

this thread is about as shit as the Shubla country thread.

Its all about the Dosh, Shekels, Dineros, that fucking sweet green.

[sMartins]

I didn't know about that ... congrats Finns. We, as Italy, did pretty much the opposite ... we were between the best at the start of the last century, then we started to go down.
I don't know who invented multiple choices exams, but he shall burn to hell.

Edit: probably it's the same in every country up there in Scandinavia .... bastards you live well up there, isn't it?

[shubla]

I didn't know about that ... congrats Finns. We, as Italy, did pretty much the opposite ... we were between the best at the start of the last century, then we started to go down.
I don't know who invented multiple choices exams, but he shall burn to hell.

Edit: probably it's the same in every country up there in Scandinavia .... bastards you live well up there, isn't it?

I have never took a multiple choice-only test in my life. Maybe sometimes there were multiple-choice or fill-in parts in exams, but they were only like 10% of the total points.
It is difficult to imagine an exam which would only consist of multiple-choice questions. I think that teachers who put them in tests just wanted to give students some easy points. (As multiple choice problems are quite easy, and even if you only guess, you have good chances of scoring some points!)

[Ysh]

It seem to me that this Jalpha ascribe some property to this schooling that do not exist in current paradigm. I have only bachelor's degree, so I can not comment from first person perspective of post graduation schooling, but from what I see this university is not design to be some forum for free thought and new idea. Rather it is more like certification factory. The men who go and complete this program now have a paper which say that they are able to be given some instruction and produce some content. What sort of instruction and content he is able to do is based on this major field. This is useful for some other men who have interest in hiring men to produce some content for his business.

I think if you want to see side of university where smart men come to solve problem of world, then you must pursue doctorate and work for university as researcher. My impression is this world of academia is very bureaucratic, but again, this is just third person perspective.

I do not think it is immoral or surprising that university will work in this way now. This world today is much more complicated than it have been in the past. I can not study under my father how to make barrels, then take over this barrelmaking job to earn income for my whole live. The task that men must do today in order to earn this income require many more men to participate (problem itself is more complex) and require many more knowledge to perform (task to solve problem is more complex). So if the item I must sell is now jet airplane instead of barrel, I require very large team of men to work with and produce this item. It is not feasible for a single man to make profit by building jet airplane in his garage for sale. Due to this it is more necessary to work in large corporation with other man than to work for your own self. It is my opinion this is just natural progression due to accumulation of knowledge of mankind and not due to some corrupting of the system, though I do not deny some corrupting may exist as well.

But these group of men (company) who work together to make profit do not want to invite some dullard man to work with them. Any man can walk through doors and say the he have knowledge to build jet airplane and ask for job. Sure, this company can interview, but how easy it is to establish you know of this jet airplane in few hour interview? I am not sure. I think maybe you can design written test to do this, but now company must handle expense of making test and updating this one and ensuring there are no leaks of answer key, and so on. Not to mention, who can make the test? Is a man who can make jet airplane the same man who can write a good test for telling if other men can make jet airplane? Or now company must hire man who can write test, but how can he tell which men are able to write this test well? Now he must write a test to tell him which men can write tests properly to decide which men can build jet airplane properly. This is nonsense.

And so come in the university. Some other group of men say they will solve this issue for the company. They will teach men to build jet airplane and handle all testing. When these men are qualified, they will be given paper which show that they have these skills. Now it is much more easy to filter applicant of jet airplane job by the men who know basics of airplane and the men who do not. This to me seems as a logical progression to this current system.

[Dakkan]

Both of my graduate degrees turned out to be complete trash from a supposed prestigious university for stem shit. From what I've seen in other graduate programs who's classes I've sat in on though, some programs seem like they might be amazing. Chemical engineering and mechanical engineering especially have some really neat math and prototyping research, though I'm sure it's going to vary depending on where you look. Side note, you can typically just walk into classes and sit through the entire semester that way. Most professors, if they notice, (smaller classes make this unavoidable) usually take it as a compliment.

My bachelor degrees were way more satisfying, from an extremely cheap, tiny state school. I got more hands on experience with lab equipment there in the first semester than the undergrad students at my graduate university do in all 5 years. And lab experience like that with incredibly expensive equipment is probably the main thing you can't experience when teaching yourself a topic.

Financially ruined though, so fuck it.

[Jalpha]

Returning too Grangers opening post now that I have defeated the trolls (not that they can stop frothing at the mouth).

I'm not sure that higher education can or should be expected to make up the shortfall for poor parenting. Maybe it should though until parenting requires a license... Unfortunately they are interfering with this new wave of political correctness which paves the way for the collapse of our civilisation. Everyone too afraid of offending anyone that they can't actually get anything done. PC seems to have originated from female empowerment and is a totally unnecessary element of the movement. It serves no point other than to be used as a weapon. But this is a topic for another time.

I agree a lot with what Ysh has said on two fronts. Education is becomming ever more about money and production and far less about advancing society or discovering things. The system which we are a part of and which supports us has become so complex it verges on stagnancy.

This follows through to industry, where I will use the perfect example of capitalistic overcomplication, inefficiency and waste for the purpose of making money. Solar panels. Perfectly acceptable for home applications if you can stomach their needless complexity, inefficiency and questionable net energy returns. I won't go too much into the carbon footprint of their manufacture or the other pollution which results as well.

There are much more simple ways of generating higher efficiency solar energy with less waste but a lot of solar farms are installing hectares of solar panels instead. These are educated people making these decisions. Just one example of how broken the system is.

Another time I'll make a thread on the rise of narcissism within society and how the result is a bunch of mindless idiots having lunches and playing social games instead of getting any work done.

[jordancoles]