What is the closest thing to H&H that actually has people?

[MightySheep]

The thing that all open world full loot pvp games have in common is they are dead. No matter how good these games are- only the sweatiest veterans end up staying in end. No one wants to play a game where they just get shit on 24/7.

Wurm Online PvP is a joke in many ways, first there is basically no limit on how much your character can improve and they don't wipe the servers so you have 10+ year veterans with accounts that you literally can never even dream of competing with (theres been numerous exploits and various changes to skillgain rates to make it harder), fighting in gear that you can never even dream of acquiring (uniques like dragons are extremely rare). Second the PvP is just a stat check, I mean you literally stand still and a text based combat system plays out in your chat box, if you have higher stats and gear you probably win.

Right now I just play Rust and before Rust I played Albion, these are 2 games that are not really like Haven but at least they have players.

[Jalpha]

Dragon leather isn't really that good. It mainly just weighs less than equivalent armour types. Skillgain is kindof... Complicated. All stats are capped at 100, however 100 is supposedly technically impossible to achieve. Two players with stats in the 50s will still wreck a player with stats in the high 90s. Each character starts with a bonus to skill gain in one skill (marked with an asterisk, so long as they have premium sub) and this can stack (up to a maximum of five asterisks per skill). When you kill a player you take an asterisk from them and it is applied to the same skill as it was on for them. Within a month the killed player receives a new bonus to a random skill if they have no asterisks. I am quite certain this is (painfully) exploitable.

Straightforward combat is similar to Hafen in that you stand there mashing buttons but you get text in chat instead of icons overhead. Raiding is... Effectively digging down huge dirt walls while the players who have been playing for years try to kill each other and you.

I never had any problems acquiring high quality armour and weapons. The newer PvP server has increased skill-gain rates and it is pretty necessary to join a team of other players. I groomed horses and helped keep structures in good repair as well as assisting to expand the mine and keeping it free of spiders and trolls. In exchange I was provided decent equipment and they tolerated my habit of getting their horses killed while I trained combat skills (spider isle as I called it was a terrifying place).

Honestly I have always had much better experiences with the community there maybe because there is no permadeath (which draws a certain "type" of player). I remember I felt guilty for killing a horse and IDK why but I brought it back and put it in a coffin in my house then denied all knowledge of its fate. However unbeknownst to me the lady who cared for the horses was suspicious and got her friend in the town with 90ish lockpicking to break into my house and they found the dead horse. I had no idea they knew for some time even though they were making subtle jokes about it.

I also remember the time I scoured the map for a piglet and brought it back to my house to train shield skills. There was a gathering of other villagers outside my home demanding to know why I was torturing a pig and asking to be let in. They must have been drawn to the pigs squeals which were ringing out across the village. Good memories. Lots of opportunities for larping fun while you polish your 100 spindles.

However it has not aged well. I still played it for years.

[shubla]

Honestly I have always had much better experiences with the community there maybe because there is no permadeath (which draws a certain "type" of player).

I can confirm that the community is very good.
Played it for a bit a long time ago. Once some smith in training gave me pretty good quality tools and armor for free. Lost them to a spider very soon after that....

[vatas]

I feel I should elaborate on my previous post, Life is Feudal seemed to have other issues besides the Xsolla debacle and it was kind of unfair to imply it was the sole reason.

[stya]

H&H is grand but the way the population keeps collapsing is discouraging and the developers don't seem to have advertisements or newbie-streamlining as a priority so I don't expect it to pick up. Is there any game out there with a sizeable population that is:

-Single shard MMO
-Strong player control over the world
-Harsh consequences for failure
-PvP that includes said harsh consequences

Only ones I know of is EVE and Rust, any others??

The only one that comes to my mind is just "real life". The biggest problem is that life is P2P and P2W, but damn the graphics and the physics engine are good!
...
Rogalia could have been something, but the devs seem to have "almost" abandoned the game, wiki is hell and server population is too low... Some good ideas there though

[Gorakil]

Rogalia

Isnt rogalia jsut a hnh ripoff with ability to shit after consuming food?

[SnuggleSnail]

Isnt rogalia jsut a hnh ripoff with ability to shit after consuming food?

[menillos]

You guys are crazy. HAVEN IS THE BEST GAME EVER EVEN IF YOU PLAY ALONE

[BoxingRock]

You guys are crazy. HAVEN IS THE BEST GAME EVER EVEN IF YOU PLAY ALONE

nice try jorb

[MightySheep]

*nonsense*

I have thousands of hours played on Wurm so I can say with confidence you dont know what youre talking about. Players with stats in 50s cant beat a player with stats in 90s, thats just silly.

The original PvP servers are Epic and Chaos and have been around for many many years and include basically unraidable villages that have been built over the course of years and are filled to the brim with accounts that have been around for about a decade since when body stats were much easier to raise and have been sold between multiple owners all the while constantly grinding to have absolutely unreachable stats, sorcery, meditation and religion. Meditation alone is literally timegated to take years. Religion has a huge impact on PvP and there used to be things like sermons which granted 1 faith a day so everyone got to 100 faith (oops sorry new players you gotta grind the slow way). And to say unique gear isnt important is laughable, scale and artifacts are absolutely brokenly OP.

The only reason I played Wurm is because its a game I've played since I was like 10 years old but the last time I played was that new PvP server and I was the first one to 70FS in the server but after doing just that it was like sudden realization like "wait a minute, this game is actually trash" lol. I saw the game for what it is, a very old and extremely bad game The combat system is fucking text based. You dont even do anything you just stand there hoping that your desynced ass character is in the right place and watching the combat play out. What annoyed me most was they changed all the weapon and armor types and theres no way to know what they did because you don't get any information other than praying the text based combat plays out in your favor.

Also Wurm has 1 of the most miserable communities out of any game I've played. It's like a game where old people and social rejects go to die or something. Depresses me to even think about it. Long story short; Wurm is a terrible game for new players and the PvP is awful, 0/10 would not recommend.