two main types of players

[telum12]

@telum12 you missed the point completely to a point that I'm wondering if you were playing an FPS game with such tunnel vision.
The point is you can rely on stats so much to a point that It trivializes much of the game.

[... bla I don't rly care about community vs. individual argument]

Last I want to state on the fact that I do understand the gameplay~ I did play this world; again the sword 10q vs 200q yes there is a difference of damage and yes they do have a varying degree of damage, the math for it is pretty fked tbh; but again the point was the stats trivialized the game. you go hit a bear with 5000str + steel sword~ the bear is pretty fked.
We can go into a rabbit hole of how hunting in general is buggy or how salt allows players to get to high to quickly, how whale is beyond fked for hunting and food eatting.
But I just want to bring more attention how stats/player progression needs to be stomped to allow a possible new gameplay to emerge.

I think you're severely overestimating bears and underestimating weapon q. I'll provide you with two situations where you can one-hit a bear, and you can tell me which is easier to achieve:
- Get steel for a q10 b12 and then eat until 10k str
- Get better q leather etc. for a q200 b12 and eat until 1k str

The idea that you can "just go hit a bear with 5000 str" is wack. How many players do you think actually have 5k str, even this late in the world? Why do you think those players run around with high-q b12's? If you're so far into late-game that you have 5k+ str, who the fuck cares if you don't have to struggle killing bears?

You can say I'm tunnelvisioning, but I just don't care about the other things you said. I do care about you saying incorrect stuff, like that q10 vs. q200 doesn't matter if you have a lot of str. It propagates this stupid idea that stats are literally everything that matters in the game when it's not, and it spreads misinformation.

I hate to say this, but people do read the posts here and believe a lot of it. You straight-up lying about how the mechanics work to get your point accross is toxic af.

[DDDsDD999]

The idea that you can "just go hit a bear with 5000 str" is wack. How many players do you think actually have 5k str, even this late in the world? Why do you think those players run around with high-q b12's? If you're so far into late-game that you have 5k+ str, who the fuck cares if you don't have to struggle killing bears?

Don't the bears deserve a chance to win?

[maze]

o yes the misinformation that tons of stats make combat trivial. I musta forgot 1str players can make combat trivial too oops my bad

[Pommfritz]

@maze
what's so hard about making a new villager useful? you can make him some gear, food and curios and with your industry it's pretty easy for the new guy to catch up to being useful for you.
That it's impossible for people to catch up this late in the world is just as dumb as a statement especially if you can guide them in your village lmao.
also your whole village/industry is a community project or no? maybe there could be done more on a bigger scale but just deleting character progression and building things sounds boring, that's why I don't play minecraft.

but anyway maybe you can refer to a game that has what you are looking for so I can get a better understanding.

edit: also, the "snails" as you like to call them probably just spend more time playing the game or do it more efficiently than the facebook mom who logs in for an hour to reload curios every day?
maybe it's more fair than you think?

[maze]

@maze
what's so hard about making a new villager useful? you can make him some gear, food and curios and with your industry it's pretty easy for the new guy to catch up to being useful for you.
That it's impossible for people to catch up this late in the world is just as dumb as a statement especially if you can guide them in your village lmao.
also your whole village/industry is a community project or no? maybe there could be done more on a bigger scale but just deleting character progression and building things sounds boring, that's why I don't play minecraft.

but anyway maybe you can refer to a game that has what you are looking for so I can get a better understanding.

edit: also, the "snails" as you like to call them probably just spend more time playing the game or do it more efficiently than the facebook mom who logs in for an hour to reload curios every day?
maybe it's more fair than you think?

Time and effort is really the core problem. You're correct that it's not truly impossible but the amount of resources + time and effort becomes such a gross amount that it's hardly worth it.

I don't fully think player progression should be deleted (normally I use the words "Early player progression" vs "late player progression"), there needs to be a system to make the players want to keep playing a single char.
I mention this in my player vs community progression post, wounds could possible take on a new system with wounds + events allowing for player growth ideally for fighting.
the core gameplay would still be with haven and hearth so building things would not be the only part of the game.

An example of an MMO, try haven and hearth but with only uping your stats to the same stats your gear is.

[SnuggleSnail]

It seems to me your problem with the overarching mechanics is primarily emotional, and regardless of how they're implemented if there's a potential for disparity in power you'll end up feeling helpless. I suspect reduced complexity and more guidance is what you actually want.

[VDZ]

I don't remember ever seeing somebody ask how to PVP

Because that starts with having decent stats, as everyone is aware (even if not everybody understands the details). If someone has tons more AGI than you do, you need to be way better at PvP to stand a chance. The people who attack you will outstat you in almost all cases (unless you're part of a group of PvPers, in which case you don't need to ask the forums). Defense is the only situation in which this information would be helpful; there is very little reason for a weak player to proactively attack other players.

escape PVP

Step 1: Fill your entire belt and inventory with water. Except that gets in they way of normal gameplay, so nobody outside of dedicated PvPers does that. And without tons and tons of water (or a method of transportation faster than your attacker, like hopping into a boat) running away is simply delaying the inevitable. People do ask, but the general consensus is that getting away is not feasible and you should focus on minimizing the damage from your inevitable KO.

or build good-against-siege bases

That gets asked all the time, though. People only don't ask about how to actually defend when a siege happens...because it just never happens. People don't bother sieging unimpressive bases. I'm pretty sure the last time I got sieged was in world 5, and that was only after I stole stuff from someone.

im not sure what im more jaded about, the state of the game or the state of the playerbase tbh

You should be more jaded about the playerbase. As bad as the power imbalance is, it's still a far cry from Legacy's 'one punch = KO, two punches = death' system and palibashing. I'm not a PvPer so I can't speak about how PvPer<->PvPer interaction has changed, but for all other player interactions the game mechanics have changed for the better, even if people are now complaining more than ever.

[SnuggleSnail]

"Being good at PVP starts with having decent stats" is a cope I fell into too when I first started. In world 10 I had prolly the highest stated archer character in the game, but if some questing autist made a fresh spawn in the morning they could've had my corpse in their basement before dinner. High stated chars got drowned by a fresh spawn on a dugout this world.

You absolutely couldn't be more wrong, and it makes me genuinely angry that you're so adamant about it when by your own admission you've never engaged in PVP. You're just actively spreading misinformation so nobody ends up even trying.

> Step 1: Fill your entire belt and inventory with water.

This is like step 50. There's no way you'd live long enough to get through an entire waterskin. Step 1-49 involve not hard coping the fact you're utter trash at a game you've played for a decade and actually putting even the minutest amount of effort into being competent instead of instantly blaming stats or lack of consumes for everything before burying your head in the sand. It's honestly pathetic.


The plebs need to be forced to learn how to PVP. Overhauling the system 100 times isn't going to fix the mentality problem.

[DoctorCookie]

The plebs need to be forced to learn how to PVP. Overhauling the system 100 times isn't going to fix the mentality problem.

You say it all right here, how you truly feel, that anyone that doesn't adopt your playstyle is beneath you and should be forced to play exactly how you want. You keep saying stats have no affect on PVP, yet you and your people have said here how fun it is to exact revenge on "plebs" after you begin to leave them behind in stats and skills in a week. You say noone ever asks for tips on PVP? I disagree, but I will bite. Can you, Snugglesnail, make and post some useful guides on the mechanics of escape and PVP strategies? The guide section is woefully outdated.

[kiddoinc]

I don't remember ever seeing somebody ask how to PVP, escape PVP, or build good-against-siege bases

This you baby?

would encourage anybody who knows anything even vaguely cool not to contribute your information anywhere regular nabs can get it