Russia invades Ukraine

[shubla]

Maybe my thoughts about ships being useless in modern conflicts is true after all.

[Fostik]

Maybe my thoughts about ships being useless in modern conflicts is true after all.

I'd say ships is the one of most significant power for modern conflicts: judging by moskva warship, it was a kind of giant anti-air umbrella for entire south of Ukraine, not only by it's anti-aircraft missiles, but also radar systems, making it nearly impossible to perform any aerial actions by Ukraine in those regions. Firepower is huge - 16 cruise missiles at barrage. Ukraine war experts said that it's up to be reassessed what kind of breach in aerial defense they have now on south, what can be said for sure is that other ships are not capable of actions on the sea.

What I can call useless(judging by what is happening on current war) is tanks, a good equipped armored personnel carrier can achieve same battle efficiency and be safer due to it's speed. The crew can be equipped with anti-air missiles, anti-tank missiles, scouting drones, and even attack drones(like switchblade) and this is still cheaper than tank, which can be destroyed by one shot with equipment that weights 2 to 10 kilograms which costs few thousands dollars comparing to millions of tank price.

[shubla]

I'd say ships is the one of most significant power for modern conflicts: judging by moskva warship, it was a kind of giant anti-air umbrella for entire south of Ukraine, not only by it's anti-aircraft missiles, but also radar systems, making it nearly impossible to perform any aerial actions by Ukraine in those regions. Firepower is huge - 16 cruise missiles at barrage. Ukraine war experts said that it's up to be reassessed what kind of breach in aerial defense they have now on south, what can be said for sure is that other ships are not capable of actions on the sea.

Hopefully it has great anti submarine capabilities as well, because huge firepower and great anti air are of no use in seabed

What I can call useless(judging by what is happening on current war) is tanks, a good equipped armored personnel carrier can achieve same battle efficiency and be safer due to it's speed. The crew can be equipped with anti-air missiles, anti-tank missiles, scouting drones, and even attack drones(like switchblade) and this is still cheaper than tank, which can be destroyed by one shot with equipment that weights 2 to 10 kilograms which costs few thousands dollars comparing to millions of tank price.

There was some Finnish general or whatever who said that tanks can be useful if they're led well, such as to not move in tight columns with 2 meters between tanks.

But I agree. They seem quite useless with semi-carriable antitank/air weapons. Big gun is just not worth it.

Self powered artillery sounds quite though, not sure if it has been used a lot in this conflict.

[Fostik]

Hopefully it has great anti submarine capabilities as well, because huge firepower and great anti air are of no use in seabed

Probably not

[Shenbatu]

Rest in Pieces, Russian Warship Moskal -- I mean Moskva!

Controlling soldiers is basically impossible. The type who persist within military forces are basically criminals too intelligent to be imprisoned.

Deploying them is like letting a jailhouse population out to play with regular people.

Nobodies military is any different. It's interesting to see Putin stand up for his soldiers. I hope it doesn't send the wrong message to the soldiers. What choice was he given though.

I call bullshit on this one. Militaries are complex social structures designed specifically to keep people in line and having them do exactly as commanded from higher up. A military operation cannot succeed unless the soldiers can be controlled sufficiently. Lacking control of your soldiers means your soldiers are not trained adequately (which seems to be the case for Russia). When this results in war crimes, those responsible for keeping the soldiers in check are also held responsible for their behavior, and rightly so. We can train even animals to maul people only on command, surely it can't be too much asked to do the same for soldiers?

The worst part is that there aren't "just" a few scattered rape incidents. They are systematically raping and murdering females, no matter how young and probably no matter how old. Russian soldiers raped a toddler for fuck's sake. A toddler. Basically a goddamn baby! Truly sick degenerate people are capable of this...

Reminds me of the Dirlewanger Brigade, the most infamous group within the German armed forces in WW2. They were literally recruited from prisons, many of them having the choice of facing death for their crimes or joining the Dirlewanger Brigade. Basically Nazi Germany's Suicide Squad.

Except all of the Russian army is the Dirlewanger Brigade.

[mvgulik]

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[WowGain]

(the sens of impunity always brings out the best(beast) in MAN)

wow, i think plato said that once

[VDZ]

2) Rape has always been a thing in war's. (the sens of impunity always brings out the best(beast) in MAN)

Yes, war crimes have always been a thing (well, since we started prosecuting people for causing needless suffering at least). That does not make them acceptable. I don't share the common Western sentiment that every single thing Russia does is a war crime, but in some instances they have been committing genuine war crimes and those involved should be prosecuted for it; 'other people do it all the time!' is not an excuse.

I do however share mvgulik's sentiment that the baby rape story smells like made-up outrage bait. I wouldn't accept claims as severe as that without a reliable source.

[MadNomad]

I do however share mvgulik's sentiment that the baby rape story smells like made-up outrage bait. I wouldn't accept claims as severe as that without a reliable source.

they have always been making some bullshit claims since always, and never have sources, it is best to turn off TV or just throw it out of the window, or maybe switch channel to something actually interesting rather than the channels purposefuly made to spread bullshit

of course there might be something bad happening in Ukraine but they will always stretch it out to something it isn't, and they want to punish average russian pleb(and everyone else from other countries) who is not in charge of anything and just lives their life

recently the only thing in those channels that was true was maybe inflation, but that inflation is also made on purpose so you starve, currently you can still manage to live somehow, but it is only going to get worse and worse

[mvgulik]

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