At the Crossroads of what is and what could be?

[Jons]

There are some who would agree with you, I am one of them

There are some who probably do not care as they know anything else, They do not know how botting affects every aspect of the game. . . eventually. They don't understand, that a machine/AI never stops for work, for food, for sleep, for burnout. They were not here when the forums was actually something to read and was enjoyable, as you saw actions and consequences.

And there are those who Absolutely know how much their base depends on bots. They know that IF measures were taken to begin to combat the bots(either by better game mechanics, or by better systems) that their gaming time here is finished. They know they May no longer be a Major Faction, That their base will be a fraction of what it was, That they just cannot "Hulk out" fighter alt after fighter alt, After Fighter Alt. That this game is something they will have to leave behind because their current way of living has been shutdown, and they don't wanna go back.

The Forums are straight up cancer, most threads have forums alts in it just for the sake of insults. Why, because they know no other way. They cannot have civil discourse with you as they know they cannot win that way, so they come on and they insult, abuse, just clog up the whole process.

The game, We all hope will be well received by Steam. But to be brutally honest, Most are expecting a Shit Show with the current state of affairs.

It may never change. but I cannot just sit aside and do nothing.

Yes, of course, sadly I know!

Dinosaurs!!!

[MightySheep]

Um no. Whether it's hunting, farming, or resource acquisition, the point has always been that bots do impact the game world in a variety of ways. Mechanics aren't disconnected, for example all facets of industry tend to play a role in how they affect each other. Although, why even bother farming when you can just grab some WWW outside top villages and get the best quality?

Main can go grab salt/world resource any time they want and alts cant stop them etc.

Perhaps. If you're already waiting there, nearby, or have a method of travel for when the time to pick is occurring then yeah sure. Log in an alt, pick, port to hearthfire doesn't take all that long however.

You really just cant concede that world resources are perfectly fair and everyones on equal footing huh? Yeah log in alt and pick very easy, anyone can set it up, noobs, pros, anyone, bots offer no advantages here. Mains, should they chose to go, can also get the resource for free and the alt cant stop them. Whats wrong with this system? I feel like we cant just arrive at a conclusion on any 1 topic because you just default back to "bots poison everything!!1!"

I dont even disagree that bots could be a big deal. Ive just been mainly arguing that in reality, in the current state of the game they reall arent that big of deal and nor are they abused as much as anyone thinks and its never stopped me competing at a high level. But for you to be unable to concede this 1 point about world resources which has almost nothing to do with bots, it just undermines your argument tbh. It just makes you look like a zealot who isnt interested in discussing reality.

Btw on a totally different topic. This discussion got me looking into bots and that fucking nurgling client which is public on the forum has got more bots than any private faction client Ive ever seen. Its literally a bot client and its public. What are people complaining about? I dont even get it lol.

[Kaios]

That's nonsense. Even when you don't take bots into consideration to say that world resources are "perfectly fair and everyone is on an equal footing" is just... I don't know man, you have an interesting perspective.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to argue. Mainly I'm saying that botting is a larger issue than you seem to realize, I am not in disagreement with you either that those issues apply just as much to alts controlled by real players. The other point I felt important was that the devs need a more comprehensive player data tracking system. Not only because of bots, but because I think it would really help them when it comes to developing/improving upon the mechanics.

Btw on a totally different topic. This discussion got me looking into bots and that fucking nurgling client which is public on the forum has got more bots than any private faction client Ive ever seen. Its literally a bot client and its public. What are people complaining about? I dont even get it lol.

Yes, I think even Ard client has or had something in relation to mining where it mines out a particular node or mine support coverage area. Some are available and in fact most are probably based on the publicly available clients.

[Nocturnal-Rainbows]

You really just cant concede that world resources are perfectly fair and everyones on equal footing huh? Yeah log in alt and pick very easy, anyone can set it up, noobs, pros, anyone, bots offer no advantages here. Mains, should they chose to go, can also get the resource for free and the alt cant stop them. Whats wrong with this system? I feel like we cant just arrive at a conclusion on any 1 topic because you just default back to "bots poison everything!!1!"

>Whats wrong with this system?
Alts being logged out next to world resources so they can log in on a timer and pick them is a dogshit system. Automated or not.
I could fix that specific alt problem in seconds with 1 idea that I've just thought of off the top of my head while I'm typing this.
Make it so there's a skill needed to harvest world resources. Give it a hefty LP cost to purchase so that people can't just discover a few things to get the LP needed on their alts.
That would kill alts being scattered and logged out at resources everywhere.
We have the current anti-alt system in place (can't harvest the same resource twice in a row), alts needing to get 10 points in the skill that the harvested resource uses (like cooking for salt) and then there's a cost just to harvest the resources.

This wouldn't even fuck with the natural order of the game btw, all world resources start empty. You ain't harvesting shit anyway for like a week (bit less for some resources, bit more for others). Plenty of time for your main to buy the skill to harvest when the time comes.

[joojoo1975]

Bro, people argued with you for 30 fucking pages and yet you are surprised when after arguing with a brickwall that will make shit up if proven wrong (such as accusing zadek of not showing his real stats because you believe he has another botted char that he just never uses) they end up just calling you a retard?
If someone disagrees with you and doesn't care about being polite about it == you are so mad you surely are botting so much you are shittin up the thread to prevent devs from stopping it (devs won't stop it, nobody has to shit up the thread for it, read their stance on it)
If multiple ppl disagree with you because you said something (in their opinion) fucking dumb and then proceed to laugh at you for some time == it's an echochamber of botters and i'm living rent-free
If someone says they aren't botting and yet they are competitive == Surely you are lying about how much botting and custom client features you use

Btw, i'm calling it, your response to this will be telling me i got so mad at you and you enjoy living rent-free. Or accusing me of not being honest while i 100% am.
If everyone disagrees with you it might just be that you are wrong.

you missed the mark again Dawidio.

Your approach to trust is suspect as you more times then not, do no offer any constructive criticism. Time and time again you have been part of the problem. It's funny you speak of this thread where others have come along and stated opinions and facts for both sides of the argument. Will I give up, no, cause most, if not all, know that botting at it's heart is wrong. Plain and Simple. On that note, I care not for what anybody think as they see the truth, the simple truth is 99% of the forums have lies in them, you cannot get around that. May be one post, may be the majority of the posts, doesn't matter. it is what it is. And people usually turn to insults when they have nothing left meaningful to say, you yourself have done that in the past.

You don't like the 30 pages, too bad. If all the pure bullshit insult propaganda was removed, it wouldn't be 30 pages. It would still by many pages, but that would be pages of discussions. If you Hate it so much, and Do not offer Anything to the conversation. Why are you here?

You seem to believe you understand emotion from text. not so. But you will not believe me so it is what it is. I believe I have yet to just insult anyone in this thread on the mere basis for just insulting them. to state it plainly, I'm not in this thread with posts of basically insulting one for the basis of the insult.

If multiple people disagree with me. That doesn't make them right or me wrong. You understand that quantity does not equal truth?

you, like everybody else have a chance here dawidito. you can just shit this up like you have in the past and on countless other threads, or you can try to engage with us in discussion. I hope you choose right, but I have a feeling you already made your choice.

[MightySheep]

>Whats wrong with this system?
Alts being logged out next to world resources so they can log in on a timer and pick them is a dogshit system. Automated or not.
I could fix that specific alt problem in seconds with 1 idea that I've just thought of off the top of my head while I'm typing this.
Make it so there's a skill needed to harvest world resources. Give it a hefty LP cost to purchase so that people can't just discover a few things to get the LP needed on their alts.

I dont think that would solve the issue tbh it would help because people would need to gain more LP on their alts which would be slightly more annoying but they would just study some easy curios on a bunch of alts for a while to get the skill needed either way. I also thought of a potential solution that you could make it so harvesting the salt just applies the hunger reduction effect right then and there.

Im not necessarily arguing alt spam is good mechanics I just think its perfectly fair and everyone can do it and if people chose to go to get the resources on their main they could, alts cant stop them.

That's nonsense. Even when you don't take bots into consideration to say that world resources are "perfectly fair and everyone is on an equal footing" is just... I don't know man, you have an interesting perspective.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to argue. Mainly I'm saying that botting is a larger issue than you seem to realize, I am not in disagreement with you either that those issues apply just as much to alts controlled by real players.

Whats not fair about it? At least state your case because as far as I can see, getting world resources is and has always been a direct correlation between the effort youre willing to put in and what you get out of it. Even a day 1 new player could spam a ton of alts and monitor the timings etc to harvest all the world resources.

Im very lazy so I dont bother but the 1 or 2 tiems in the past I bothered to do it, I found that half the nodes were uncontested and the other half were alts not bots, I havent seen bots at all. Its not necessary.

[Kaios]

It still takes time to set all that up, it's not going to be something that occurs with much frequency during the early world phase. Uncontested resources could just as easily be a result of inactivity in the late-game as well, the world does become rather barren after a couple of months.

Of course the most experienced and dedicated players are going to be less affected by alt/botting issues, that is only natural. It is the average new and casual player that suffers. Just because it's not impacting you doesn't make the problem non-existent or mean that it should be ignored.

In any case, I thought the point of those local resources were to be fought over which would imply some element of unfairness. Have you had any big fights related to local resources? Genuine question.

[MightySheep]

The only time I had a fight over resources was in KoA world we shared a mountain with sacraer / AD and every salt timer a lot of fighters would go to the moutnains and fight. There have been other times when we went as a vilalge to an enemy mountain and spread out and killed every alt at a salt node and then they came out and fought us. This can be worth doing because people dont just hearth after every harvest like u said, they usually just harvest, log off, harvest log off, then bank with full inventory. Salt has been worthless for a while though its only just gotten buffed now.

I dont agree that casual players suffer from alt issues here, they have just as much ability to put alts on world resources as tryhard players. In fact its 1 of the few things where the effort:payoff ratio is exactly the same for both, veterans really hold no advantage. Which is why we normally trade for world resources with noobs

[Kaios]

I dont agree that casual players suffer from alt issues here, they have just as much ability to put alts on world resources as tryhard players. In fact its 1 of the few things where the effort:payoff ratio is exactly the same for both, veterans really hold no advantage. Which is why we normally trade for world resources with noobs

Surely you agree though that if the solution to something is spam alts, that's a bad mechanic. I'm not advocating specifically for ban botters or anything like that, if they can fix the mechanics in a meaningful way that reduce the value of botting or alt abuse then that would be great. Unfortunately, most of the time the fixes in such cases have the opposite effect for casual players creating a bigger hassle while for larger villages/factions and botters they really just end up being minor inconveniences.

[SnuggleSnail]

damn you guys are still going?

Has anybody made a new point yet or is it still just "na I'm right" over and over