Keep your autohearth on! (An Complaint About PvP)

[dafels]

Well pvp is the end game really. Even carebears are really just supporting pvpers.

Unfortunately pvpers find equal satisfaction whether fighting another pvper or murdering noobs.

That seems to be where the problem begins because murdered noobs often quit never to return and the server rolls along with a pop of ~200 and an empty map.

I think that the problem begins with that most of the people thinks that PvP is only all about murdering noobs and they don't know how PvP works out in this game in general and voice their ridiculous opinions.

[Jalpha]

Regardless murdering noobs is a thing which happens. So then what's a way of making this better without making noobs vulnerable?

Honestly noob killing doesn't bother me. I've died multiple times playing this game. Sometimes it's resulted in a long break, other times not. I have always liked that element of danger. After permadeath other games seem lackluster.

But I think the community has a lot to gain by making room for other playstyles and that seems to be the direction of development. Like it or not. I'm sure in time it will lead to good things.

[dafels]

Regardless murdering noobs is a thing which happens. So then what's a way of making this better without making noobs vulnerable?

Honestly noob killing doesn't bother me. I've died multiple times playing this game. Sometimes it's resulted in a long break, other times not. I have always liked that element of danger. After permadeath other games seem lackluster.

But I think the community has a lot to gain by making room for other playstyles and that seems to be the direction of development. Like it or not. I'm sure in time it will lead to good things.

You can't make noobs invulnerable, you have to deal with it that an random person could come up on your screen and murder you without any chances, because the noob lacks the knowledge about PvP, that is how it is in all games and especially you have to be aware of this if you're playing an game which features PvP. I don't think that the noobs are quitting, because of them getting killed by an stronger person who have spent LOADS of time working on his char compared to the noob. It is because you get an massive stat setback once you want to respawn and try again, which I think devs need to make easier to regain stats after a death that would fix the problem, instead of further nerfing PvP until it is completely dead just like right now.

People seem to forget about that PvP makes the game a lot more fun and makes the world rolling, because it motivates people to do intensive grinding, motivates intensive playing/player interaction overall between villages to support the PvPers and gives an reason to it. Right now when PvP is dead I don't see any reason why would you do quality grinding for nothing, because I see that the quality grind is only to beat your opponent in a specific field, such as PvP. It seems that when PvP died, the world died as consequence of it.

[TeckXKnight]

The death and hunting of newbies is an inevitability in any game that permits there to be a gap in player ability and character ability so that aspect alone isn't worth considering. If you're worried about newbies dying then improve the early game accessibility. Right now new players get shit on pretty hard from the character creation room to finding a home. Even with the relative silence of the starting zone now it's still devoid of basic resources necessary to do anything. So after fumbling around in a kinda confusing character creation room players get to enjoy achieving no tangible or meaningful growth or success for hours as they search for enough berries and rocks to do anything. All of this amounting to a paltry level of understanding of the game and even fewer meaningful chances to grow as a player.

With that rant out of the way the problem isn't necessarily in people lacking an understanding of the combat system, it's that they've had limited exposure to pvp in any real sense. For most of us pvp means ganking someone 3v1. You can deny it and hate it and say I'm full of shit, but really, combat isn't this fair sequence that gives the other side a chance. Most people plan to give themselves the best odds of coming out on top and that means not fighting unfavorable or even fair odds. So when people talk about combat they're talking about it from the stance of the 3 guys attacking the 1 guy or the 1 guy being attacked. What kind of opinions do you expect to get out of that? When this is often the reality of combat, is it worth discarding these opinions though?

Of course the 3 guys want to get a kill and hate that their target can escape. Of course the 1 guy wants to be able to autohearth and avoid combat entirely since he's almost guaranteed to lose and lose everything. I think the entire notion of equality is ridiculous in these situations. Let us have absolute speed advantages over other people. Add extra dimensions to foraging so that it can be a meaningful pvp experience or safer aspect of the game but don't leave it in its current state and pretend like any actual combat is going to come out of it. Let the poor schmuck going out foraging bury invisible spike traps and be able to duck behind trees to gain hard invisibility that a custom client can't just see through. If he gets spotted on the minimap and gets gutted then that's part of the fun and thrill of the game. If some jerkass on a horse decides to ride through cutting up as many wood cutters as he can find then great, that defines part of the game as well. If someone walks into their own traps or some other ridiculous nonsense happens then great, that creates the opportunity for meaningful events and contact to occur.

[Jalpha]

Some good points.

I actually agree with you. I think if the death mechanics are changed autohearth isn't needed. I think everyone should be afraid when they are outside their walls.

[shubla]

It seriously can't be that hard to ask.

Seriously?? He can't think of a solution?
How about a 20 second hearth timer instead of a 5 second one

The current timer is way too short to notice a person on screen, run to them, and agro them
The person is usually gone before you even see them on your screen

We did some testing with this and basically the only way to get them is to start out on sprint speed (before they even render in and start autohearthing, meaning you'd have to know that the person was there to begin with) which is already never going to happen. And that's with nothing in your way, just straight lining to them

First of all.
Why should pvp guys be able to kill 100% of noobs they see.
Second. 20 second hearth timer is not answer
It will be pain in the ass to use hearth beacuse you need to wait almost 1 minute for some timer. And every time you wait this timer you know that it is only added so people like cordan coles would be able to kill you without any reason.

[Gensokyo]

Back to Hearth time minorly increased based on character stats/combat stats?

[borka]

Geesh dafels your true opponents that are really worth to fight with you have autohearth on ?!?

Remember: autohearth code was made public as reaction on autoaggro code used in some clients !!!
nvr4get #aufschrei about it here at forums

As long there's autoaggro autohearth is fine (both togglable)

Both should have the same view / reaction range - the question is how much rendering speed (?better HW?) and Internet connection speed counts

prolly both might just need a slightly delayed roll the dice function to get them on par and none gets a priority over the other as default (?)

[shubla]

Back to Hearth time minorly increased based on character stats/combat stats?

This idea seems very good at first glance.
More you have uac/melee/mm the longer it takes for you to hearth.
This way farmers etc. that dont have any stats can easily hearth away.
So can new players and this would solve killing noobs. But doenst kill pvp as people with pvp stats cant just tleeport away before they can be aggroed.

[vatas]

Back to Hearth time minorly increased based on character stats/combat stats?

Can't figure out any downsides to this other than potential raider butthurt.

Very least make it so that one minute is the longest that hearthing can take, no matter how much stats character has.