The end of the Universe

[razfen]

why the fuck are you guys talking about shit you don't even understand

[Jalpha]

Because that is the only path to understanding.

Better to try and fail than never to try at all.

[shubla]

why the fuck are you guys talking about shit you don't even understand

If you dont ever talk or think about things that you dont understand, you never learn them.

[Potjeh]

So how thin of a crack can your god of gaps crawl into?

[sMartins]

Edit: I may have been confused after scrolling through a page of the Elric brothers formulae. The uncertainty principle seems different in that it states that we can never precisely know both the location and size of any object. This seems to be a result of our broken/unfinished mathematical system, especially after scrolling through a page of obscure formulae. There seems to be no logical reason why the uncertainty principle exists, only a mathematical one.

It's not again, this is excatly what I was talking about.
What you are talking about now it's the first interpretation, the realistic one, that also Einstein supported, that in short says that the wave function is incomplete, we don't know a shit, better we keep looking ... in short this is the realistic position, and the particle was always there even before we measured it.
But nowdays we proved it wrong ... the particle isn't really anywhere, it's the act of measurament that produce the result, just cause we are looking .... when we are not looking we are not able to tell what is going on.
Again I'm not completly sure there isn't anything newer in this regard right now, but from my university book, I remember that experiments have proved the orthodox position. So it's not a limit in our theory, the theory is telling us we won't ever be able to know, very different things. And, you know, quantum mechanics works so far.
That's why I was talking about philosophy, and how we give meaning to our sourrounding that meaning doesn't have, giving meaning to things is a human condition starting with Socrate pretty much, with rationalism and cause-effect principle .... that, of course, also them are not "true" but they work, for us.

Edit:
A pen is not just a pen, little kids that haven't developed the reason yet know it very well. A pen can be used to write, but I can use it as a weapon if I hit you in the eyes, or I can use it for everything, as screwdriver for example or everything.
Reality, "the truth" is not just one meaning for thing, everything means everything or anything means nothing ... just we need a system where evrything has a precise meaning so that we can live togethere and alleviate the anxiety coming from the meaningless reality.
Everytime I take a pen in my hands in 2018 nobody gets scared from my action of taking a pen, cause everybody thinks I'm gonna use it to write, and not to kill someone ..... that isn't true for little kids for example, hitting their friends in the eyes with the pen, that's why parents need to keep watching at them, or for all of us also in the pre-rationalist age, where we were using Totem and Tabù to give meaning to reality, what is good and what is bad ..... after that religions, and so on.
It looks trivial for us nowdays, but it's not trivial .... just cause we internalized it after so many years, but it's an our invention, it's not the reality of things.

[loftar]

When people start linking complex mathematical forumlae my eyes glaze over a bit. It just looks like something out of Full Metal Alchemist to me and I don't believe in magic spells.

Well, in defense thereof, if you know the language of algebra and the meaning of the symbols used, it's not just a magic spell. As someone even remotely interested in mathematics, I think it's pretty hard to not in some way enjoy Euler's identity, for instance. It just brings together so many seemingly unrelated fields of mathematics into one very simple statement.

[MagicManICT]

why the fuck are you guys talking about shit you don't even understand

If you dont ever talk or think about things that you dont understand, you never learn them.

Have to quite agree with you, shubla. Yes, it's a game forum. We're here to carry on a conversation about a game and such... and we're a bunch of closet intellectuals, too.

@razfen: What do you think Socrates and Plato discussed when they were lounging around drunk on wine? Their girlfriends' big boobs? (Actually, it was more likely about how such manners were illogical and didn't hold up to a higher moral code of what it was to be "Greek" or "Athenian" and what "love" is... --ref Plato's "Symposium".)

[Granger]

or is the whole universe shivering under the strain of existing and we glimpse this in the double slit.

Beautiful perspective. Thank you for this.

[Jalpha]

Thanks for miring my perspective. Sometimes it spits out something worthwhile and it's good to know when. I think the Universe is just as uncomfortable about all of this as we are.

Complex math has just never made sense to me and we always fear what we don't understand. It's something I really should work on but I am yet to find a need which overcomes my aprehension.

There's a lot of confusion here between the double slit experiment and the uncertainty principle. I thought logic was supposed to precede mathematics. I don't like things which say "math says this so it has to be logical" particularly when it isn't.

For dafels;

Too wrecked right now to produce anything really deep and there is a lot here to mull over.

[Adder1234]

My understanding is that the universe will continue to expand and all of the energy will dissipate, for eternity. There won't actually be an "end of the universe" because for the rest of time, everything will just get further and further apart. Eventually it will reach a point where it might as well be empty, but it never will.