Where did everybody go? Server count down

[Kaios]

Not enough people even tried this world for it to peak slightly past 1k.
It's hard to point to any of the gameplay or mechanical changes as responsible, except insofar as there were few communicated and the only ones forecast seemed to suggest they were catering to only PvP focused players.
The decision for most players to skip the world happened before the world even started, before anyone tried any of the balance changes.

I'm sure you're right, though in my opinion I don't think there's any question about it at this point as the world structure quite literally caters to a PvP-focused play style.

My main gripe isn't really with any particular change, but rather the lack of changes combined with something as arbitrary as speeding up time. It doesn't take a genius to see the sort of consequences that may come along as a result of that so they either did it knowing full well exactly what would happen with regard to something like rushing criminal skills or they simply did not give enough of a shit to consider such possibilities at all. Not to mention the impact changing time has on other various mechanics.

There still isn't even an early game method for reducing red opening, a player without a defensive move for reducing red (which is the majority of them for now I would imagine) is pretty much screwed against anyone actively seeking pvp.

[SnuggleSnail]

I'm sure you're right, though in my opinion I don't think there's any question about it at this point as the world structure quite literally caters to a PvP-focused play style.

non-central spawn, severely nerfed fast travel, a giant map, faster to build walls, and faster drying walls? This is not a PVP focused world xdxdxd there will only be any PVP if all the PVPers just happened to randomly choose the same continent

[Kaios]

Clearly we have differing definitions of what "player versus player" means, as it doesn't really make a difference whether the player being attacked intended to engage in pvp or not. If you're attacking a player, that is pvp. If you're being attacked by a player, that is pvp. If you're destroying everything built and stealing anything of remote value made or owned by a player, that is still pvp. I have no idea where you're getting this notion from that it only counts as pvp if you're engaging with someone that might be relatively good at it.

[OIchi]

Clearly we have differing definitions of what "player versus player" means, as it doesn't really make a difference whether the player being attacked intended to engage in pvp or not. If you're attacking a player, that is pvp. If you're being attacked by a player, that is pvp. If you're destroying everything built and stealing anything of remote value made or owned by a player, that is still pvp. I have no idea where you're getting this notion from that it only counts as pvp if you're engaging with someone that might be relatively good at it.

All of what snail listed still applies if we consider all player interactions as pvp. On top of that it's easier to escape later on, since now you can simply run into the pali to get to safety.
Why are you saying it caters to PvP when you clearly have less time to harass people and with how big the world is, it's easy to hide.

You have too many things to do? all you need to do is catch 10 small animals for their hides and hang them up, stake a claim which dries faster how much time does it take? an hour? 2 tops. You can basically logout and come back to put the skins into a tanning tub, which takes a minute, log out again wait for the process to finish and then build palisade, total time you need to be online as solo to get to the complete safety is what? 3-4h over 2 days.

Every change will favour pvp until it makes you completely invulnerable is that it?

[Kaios]

All of what snail listed still applies if we consider all player interactions as pvp.

Yes, thank you. That was my point.

On top of that it's easier to escape later on, since now you can simply run into the pali to get to safety.

You could already do that anyways, but granted it is certainly easier now IF you don't have rage. I do have some issues with the way that currently works, but it's not the worst solution.

Why are you saying it caters to PvP when you clearly have less time to harass people and with how big the world is, it's easy to hide.

You have too many things to do? all you need to do is catch 10 small animals for their hides and hang them up, stake a claim which dries faster how much time does it take? an hour? 2 tops. You can basically logout and come back to put the skins into a tanning tub, which takes a minute, log out again wait for the process to finish and then build palisade, total time you need to be online as solo to get to the complete safety is what? 3-4h over 2 days.

Every change will favour pvp until it makes you completely invulnerable is that it?

If you want to stay inside your walls all the time and never explore the map that's fine dude, personally I'd like to actually play the game. I think your perspective on this matter is rather narrow and you're not taking into consideration the overall impact those changes would have in the long-term. I get that's why a world like this would be utilized to implement such changes in order to test them out, but it's not all that difficult to speculate how things will go after so many worlds of the same.

There are good reasons why the mechanics work the way they do or have been adjusted over time, take drying time for instance. Too short and you have a situation where a casual player won't have time to attempt to prevent things like someone setting up a claim nearby, or claiming over particular resources and blocking their access. Too long and many players wouldn't be able to secure their possessions in a timely manner.

If everything is sped up, presumably that means siege machinery too. If 24 hours was already not enough in some cases for the average player, imagine it being 16, 12, or 8 hours, before a group has complete access to your claim and everything inside. There are so many other considerations that should be made before committing to such changes.

Also, we all know it doesn't matter how big the map is: https://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=76693

[OIchi]

There are good reasons why the mechanics work the way they do or have been adjusted over time, take drying time for instance. Too short and you have a situation where a casual player won't have time to attempt to prevent things like someone setting up a claim nearby, or claiming over particular resources and blocking their access. Too long and many players wouldn't be able to secure their possessions in a timely manner.

If everything is sped up, presumably that means siege machinery too. If 24 hours was already not enough in some cases for the average player, imagine it being 16, 12, or 8 hours, before a group has complete access to your claim and everything inside. There are so many other considerations that should be made before committing to such changes.

I agree with that, I already mentioned that the claim dry time being faster is bad, but for now it simply helps. Would be nice if it was quicker just for the first week or something, but I don't think it's a big deal in the long run, even with old drying time you could easily sneak a claim next to most players.
Siege one is way more significant, but we are far away from that so I wasn't really thinking about it.

[Maid]

I'm sure you're right, though in my opinion I don't think there's any question about it at this point as the world structure quite literally caters to a PvP-focused play style.

non-central spawn, severely nerfed fast travel, a giant map, faster to build walls, and faster drying walls? This is not a PVP focused world xdxdxd there will only be any PVP if all the PVPers just happened to randomly choose the same continent

I wonder if ram's and catapult's dry faster too.

[Formorrung]

I'm sure you're right, though in my opinion I don't think there's any question about it at this point as the world structure quite literally caters to a PvP-focused play style.

non-central spawn, severely nerfed fast travel, a giant map, faster to build walls, and faster drying walls? This is not a PVP focused world xdxdxd there will only be any PVP if all the PVPers just happened to randomly choose the same continent

I wonder if ram's and catapult's dry faster too.

Almost certainly. They didn't specifically speed up the timers on walls and such. They sped up the world time itself, which speeds up all timers as a result.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

I think the real question that needs to be asked is if this was caused more specifically by the silence, 16.1 instead of 17, minimal features - Or if this was a larger trend towards less activity that was masked by the steam launch, which caused a slight bump in population that helped conceal the way things were going.

Either way, where to we go from here? After 1 year and 1 month, we got a wipe with 1k peak concurrent or so. I'm currently playing with 535 online.
Are we going to go 4 weeks before we are back down to 200-300, and the game is dead for another year?

We need some drastic change. This will not sustain the games longterm lifespan.

[Potjeh]

Personally I didn't start playing again because a glance at the announcements forum tells me there ain't much new content to see. That's pretty much the only thing I play Haven for, because IMO the game's vibes and aesthetics are amazing, but the mechanics are utter dogshit.