F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules [A real thread]

[Zampfeo]

I keep hearing stuff like this that is so wrong

NN didn't even exist until Obama's unelected bureaucrats at the FCC created it in 2015

NN did not exist until 2015. You said so yourself. I'm quoting you directly:

the FCC did regulate the internet by enforcing based on the Open Internet Order policy of 2010. Before that, it was the Network Freedom policies of 2004.

I never once claimed that ISP providers were never regulated. I simply and clearly noted that the 2015 NN act was lousy with Obama admin. illiberalality. I'm willing to see what happens. If, after four years, Verizon/Comcast et al can't behave themselves, then we should smack the shat out of them good and hard. How is that wrong?

The Open Internet Order, Network Freedom, and the 2015 reclassification of ISPs ARE net neutrality. Net neutrality didn't suddenly come into existence in 2015. The FCC has been keeping ISPs (mainly Comcast and Verizon) in check for years before 2015. The only reason the 2015 reclassification needed to happen was because Verizon challenged the FCC's authority in 2014 over extorting Netflix. As a result, ISPs were reclassified to regain that authority shortly afterwards. That's the only period in time when NN didn't exist and companies like Netflix were bullied by ISPs to pay them a premium or else be throttled.

The ISPs didn't behave while the FCC had authority to fine them, so why would you think they behave now that there's no one to regulate them? That makes no sense. That's like deciding to stop crime by getting rid of the police.

[Trappin]

Zampfeo, you reposted your original comment in slightly altered form.

Government regulatory agencies tend to be capricious in form and function. They are the political extension of the executive (same with the police). Limiting their power over industry doesn't mean I advocate non-enforcement of preexisting regulatory statutes. Anyhow, policing authority resides in the judiciary branch after complaints are filed. NN advocates are lining up to sue/block the Trump administration as we speak. The system works! The opposition get their day in court.

By the way, local municipalities can operate their own ISP utilities. Why depend on the aholes at Verizon when we can compel local townships to provide the same service? Chattanooga offers city residents a very attractive package for like $75 dollars/month.

[MagicManICT]

By the way, local municipalities can operate their own ISP utilities

I'll have to dig, but there are many examples of where this is blatantly wrong. State regulations and such have to be figured in, too, and if it was the case where a municipality could create network access in their locale without issues, more would do so.

And it's not "just" regulatory agencies... it's just positions of power, period. No matter how fair someone tries to be, there will always bee issues of bias and favoritism. It will be a wonderful day when mankind can settle a dispute between two individuals without needing a third party... But then, I don't think that day will ever actually come. At least not while we can still be classified as Homo Sapiens.

[arcolithe]

I understand that regulation = costs for businesses, but they're the ones making the money, so they should just nut up and take the bill on the chin and stop trying to pass it off on their customers.

not sure if this was responded yet, late at night and just started reading this.
but economists long found out that increasing costs for businesses usually directly reflects inflation for consumers. This happens cross-sector as well, due to complements and substitutes.
It's a matter of survival for businesses, that's why regulations (such as distribution quotas) that don't directly affect costs are situationally better (but they cause ethical issues in their own way.) They might affect the marginal costs, which then affects their profit function, but eh. Everything effects profit function, even sneezing in bed.

[Potjeh]

Au contraire mon frère. A group of center-rightists (myself included) were the vanguard of a grassroots movement to unseat radical leftist-greens from our local city council. Our effort was rewarded. We restored accountability and balance to a corrupt city council. Two years later, two of the city council people we helped elect locally went on to win seats in the state legislature. We call that 'winning' here in America.

So you replaced a Soros guy with a Koch guy? Wow, such improvement, much success.

But why am I arguing this with a Euro? You and yours have 1/10 the voting power of the average American.

TBF you're kinda right for me specifically because I'm Bosnian so I only ever get shits on the ballot, but I would disagree when it comes to western Europe, because those guys at least don't have legalized corruption like you do. Your elected officials don't listen to the people at all, the only voices in their ear are those that financed their campaigns.

[shubla]

But why am I arguing this with a Euro? You and yours have 1/10 the voting power of the average American.

Im not sure what you are talking about, america has maybe the worst voting system/politics. You only have like two parties, and you only swap between them in the frequency of few years, hoping that the other one will do better decisions, which they dont.
Democracy works better in most of Europes countries, or at least in Finland, compared to US.
Not saying that democracy would work though, sure its better than some other forms of government, but the issue is that most of the people who vote are ignorant about many things, and even if some sensible people would be elected, power would corrupt them and they could not get anything through that quickly, because democracy adds a lot of bureaucracy as well. In some governemnt forms things can happen much more rapidly, if the leaders want it.

[blank]

But why am I arguing this with a Euro? You and yours have 1/10 the voting power of the average American.

lmao. this guy is a dummy.. mate you do realize that YOUR VOTE IN AMERICA DOESN'T MEAN SHIT. the election is rigged.


The people in office lie just to get "your votes"

"oh yea we will cut taxes on the lower class and raise them on the wealthy, what ends up happening ofc is the complete opposite.

The reason for this is in America if you have wealth and power. You can "buy" your votes in election and pay your way to the top. Its fucked up that we allow private groups to pay and support candidates for their elections which allows them to have a better chance in winning. Its all about who has the most money in America, its very sad..

[MagicManICT]

Follow-up to my last post: https://www.google.com/search?q=city+no ... connection I had recalled this had come up recently (was an Obama push for his last two years in office), and remember one town in my home state did try to put the effort forth, but was shut down by certain state regulations which haven't been changed by this supposedly "open market" state government we have... typical GOP bullshit--claim they want a free market, but a small town can't establish their own data access when none of the existing companies want to bother with a low to no profit area. This same city probably wouldn't have phone service, either, if it wasn't for the federal mandate to provide phone service to all areas of the country (forget if that was a Roosevelt/Truman policy or Eisenhower, too lazy to look it up atm).

There has been a push for cities to build municipal data networks, some have had some success, others have been stymied by local regulations. Add to that certain federal regulations that I don't know the status of and cable companies that see this as a threat to their very existence. Well, nobody has a right to live forever, only a right to live, and that includes corporations.

Every generation seems to want to reinvent the wheel, to burn down the established rules and policies, but this generation seems to be particularly stupid and spiteful about it. It's like watching a psychotic, depressed kid cut themselves and not being able to do anything to stop it.

[shubla]

Infrastructure is so bad in USA that you will have to rebuild your networks soon anyway.
Maybe get some sane companies to do it this time.

[jordancoles]

But why am I arguing this with a Euro? You and yours have 1/10 the voting power of the average American.

lmao. this guy is a dummy.. mate you do realize that YOUR VOTE IN AMERICA DOESN'T MEAN SHIT. the election is rigged.


The people in office lie just to get "your votes"

"oh yea we will cut taxes on the lower class and raise them on the wealthy, what ends up happening ofc is the complete opposite.

The reason for this is in America if you have wealth and power. You can "buy" your votes in election and pay your way to the top. Its fucked up that we allow private groups to pay and support candidates for their elections which allows them to have a better chance in winning. Its all about who has the most money in America, its very sad..

Equal opportunity for candidates is a myth

Without a large amount of financial support (personal or sponsored) you have no chance. No Average Joe will ever even be in a position to run and even if they did, they would be bullied out by the big fish early on.

You either start wealthy and buy your way through or you're hand picked by someone who will pay your way just because you're willing to play ball