Is the game dying already due to group/faction murder hobos?

[Apocoreo]

If you mash A u have a higher chance of catching the pokemon but DON'T press B

[Apocoreo]

Okay fuck it I'll be a real boy

In my experience the majority of Haven players are weak. There's this sheer insanity where players won't learn how to fight players even to defend themselves and kin. This even applies to Hunter-types who know the combat system. I always tell them, if you can kill a player you can kill anything. Not exactly right stat wise but I mean the skill ceiling is surely other players. They don't even have to kill/KO people just be capable of it.

Not saying you're wrong but are the mechanics really as obvious as some players claim? How obvious is it that spam clicking/clicking to move too often is less efficient than shift+clicking when chasing or attempting to escape?

For instance, new player in boat is clicking to move along a river while being chased by a more experienced and aggressive player in the same type of boat, so technically no speed difference, but somehow the aggressor catches up anyways. I know, I know, most of you would say well get out of the boat and run on land but It is in fact possible to maintain distance from the aggressor with the boat in this scenario so long as one's movement is efficient enough in that regard (limiting the number of clicks). Majority of new players aren't going to know about that though or might never realize the existence of such obscure mechanisms.

Either way, all forms of movement have that effect with clicking. If I recall correctly there is even a slight, random variation of walking/running speeds with every click made.

Turn slightly is slower than walking in a straight line. Wild concept. Increased player input results in more human error. Wild concept, I agree with your point for new players but not if you're makign thehonest effort to learn and I think you are quadrupling down on a bad example.

A great example of an intuitive aspect of haven combat is drink and running. Name any other game where warriors are chugging run juice (literally water) to keep running. Wild concept (genuine).

Are they all "stronger" in a monk-like sense, that if you have a tool you are likely to use it, even if you don't really want to, you will come to want to?

It's funny tbh. If you are incapable of fighting then you are not "good" (it's a pvp videogame hence the quotation marks) for not fighting, you are just a bitch boi. You have to be capable of doing something you consider to be "bad" to actually be "good" for not doing it.
People equate being incompetent to being "good" in this game which is cringe, most hermits would rob you bilnd and murder you if they knew they could do it with 0 risk and consequences (ie. alfrety, also vatas post the picture).

In Dungeons and Dragon terms, not hurting others is an act of neutrality, an act of good would be to try to fight against evil, at least your perception of evil.

This is all if you are actually moralizing a pvp video game, but I think you can still talk about ingame morality, like roleplay as a bad guy if you find that fun, play as a ranger, whatever. Also you're still roleplaying to some degree if you act different in the game than irl but that's a tangent

[Kaios]

A great example of an intuitive aspect of haven combat is drink and running. Name any other game where warriors are chugging run juice (literally water) to keep running. Wild concept (genuine).

You mean like... a stamina potion? lol. I get your point, but a lot of those types of games do have some form of stamina management and movement based combat/abilities such as a dodge roll that requires and consumes specified amounts of stamina, endurance, whatever it is. They also don't typically require the player to run around in circles for an indefinite period of time.

I agree that it's certainly the most intuitive aspect of combat, but I don't think it meshes well with mechanics inspired by some random turn-based strategy game. Of all the combat iterations the only time I can remember ever having the opportunity to outplay my opponent based purely on some level of skill was in legacy when moving in combat completely nullified a player's defence. That system was definitely not ideal, but the opportunity to outdo your opponent in tactics at least existed.

[MightySheep]

lol come on man people are entitled to their opinions, if you read the mmorpg reddit thread that was posted around when the steam release occurred or some of the steam reviews you would realize playing this game for anything other than the pvp is a fairly common sentiment.

There are way more players doing a multitude of other activities in the game without ever participating in or enjoying the player versus player combat. The combat mechanics truly do suck eggs.

Even in many of the positive steam reviews they point out issues like poor pvp/combat mechanics, toxic community, useless default client, monotonous progression, and so forth.

Idk if u responding to me cuz its like u didnt read my post at all, I said I acknowledge a lot- if not most players arent here to pvp. As a player your feelings on the matter are completely irrelevant though. You wouldnt walk into the jungle with 0 precautions and cry its soo unfair when the tiger mauls you to death. The game is not going to suddenly change. If forum people put 1/10th the effort they do into crying as just learning to run (DW NOT TALKING ABOUT PVP JUST RUNNING) then they would have 0 issues with pvp. It's literally basically impossible to get KOd if you just learn the art of running in a straight line. Ive honestly never seen a game community as clueless, misinformed and whiny as this 1.

[Sevenless]

(DW NOT TALKING ABOUT PVP JUST RUNNING)

This covers almost the entirety of haven pvp though. Game be tactical jogging yo.

Devil's Advocate though: Why do you come into a game with 95% of the content aimed at PvE and declare the entire game is PvP and others aren't allowed to argue otherwise? Think about how much of the content is actually pvp oriented vs larp or generic PvE. Not a lot. The people with 95% of the content on their side have more weight in "deciding what this game is about" if we're working on that argument.

(This isn't my position on pvp, but I really don't like this line of thought as to defining how haven pvp should develop. You want a sandbox MMO that's truly pvp based go look at Foxhole/Anvil Empires)

[Kaios]

(DW NOT TALKING ABOUT PVP JUST RUNNING)

This covers almost the entirety of haven pvp though. Game be tactical jogging yo.

Exactly. I've never seen such a diehard group of pvpers consistently defend one of the most irredeemably terrible combat systems that has ever existed in a video game, especially when it's supposed to give players the means to not only attack others but protect themselves, their home, and their possessions. It's not fun, there's no opportunity for counter-play, ganking/grouping play styles are favoured, the best fighters always call for backup on discord so even if you do somehow manage to gain the upperhand their friends are already on the way, there's a thousand niche mechanics abused by only the most experienced and informed players whose sole purpose in the game is to make the experience markedly worse for everyone else. That's pvp for 90% of the player base.

Oh and do not forget about how much they cry and whine if archery has even the slightest amount of usefulness, meanwhile most players drop like flies in a matter of seconds.

It's literally basically impossible to get KOd if you just learn the art of running in a straight line. Ive honestly never seen a game community as clueless, misinformed and whiny as this 1.

Dude you're acting like all those players want to do is escape, but I'm sure they'd love to be able to give the asshats a taste of their own medicine if the mechanics actually allowed for that to happen.

I would love to know what jorb and loftar would do if they found themselves under siege or raiders in their base. Would they utilize their own combat system in order to defend their village or would they click the logout button? Pretty safe bet that I already know the correct answer.

[Uriel]

I would love to know what jorb and loftar would do if they found themselves under siege or raiders in their base. Would they utilize their own combat system in order to defend their village or would they click the logout button? Pretty safe bet that I already know the correct answer.

So true

[MightySheep]

(DW NOT TALKING ABOUT PVP JUST RUNNING)

Devil's Advocate though: Why do you come into a game with 95% of the content aimed at PvE and declare the entire game is PvP and others aren't allowed to argue otherwise? Think about how much of the content is actually pvp oriented vs larp or generic PvE. Not a lot. The people with 95% of the content on their side have more weight in "deciding what this game is about" if we're working on that argument.

I dont understand why people keep interpreting what Im saying like this

What I think, what you think, or what anyone thinks has no bearing on the fact that this is a pvp game. I even made up a jungle analogy to illustrate the point that your feelings on the matter wont stop you getting cut down. I just want people to come to acceptance with the fact that this is a pvp game. The sooner they do- the sooner they can begin to realize how easy it is to not die. Its mind boggling to me just from a time waste perspective why someone would choose to be a victim, like great you dont find pvp fun, but do you find fixing 5 different wounds and remaking all your equipment fun?

I saw a recent video of guy lose a pearl necklace because he didnt understand aggro radius he could have just ported at any moment,just stand behind tree and port, but no, i guess now he can enjoy the 'fun' of farming 20 pearls again. He probably listened to all the doomer talk on forum and gave up on life or something.

Dude you're acting like all those players want to do is escape, but I'm sure they'd love to be able to give the asshats a taste of their own medicine if the mechanics actually allowed for that to happen.

I would love to know what jorb and loftar would do if they found themselves under siege or raiders in their base. Would they utilize their own combat system in order to defend their village or would they click the logout button? Pretty safe bet that I already know the correct answer.

? Im all for ppl fighting back but 1 step at a time lmao, just learning how easy it is to stay alive is step 1. Youre the 1 spreading bs like its simply impossible to get away when its the opposite. Its actually impossible to catch people.

If jorb and loftar were under siege they can just do what anybody under siege can do which is announce on forum that there is pvpers camping in a specific location for 24h and anybody who likes to pvp can come get a free fight. Then bash the siege machines with alts in the 5 min window. Youre not seriously going to act like its hard to defend sieges now are you? Theres a limit to how whiny you can be

[Kaios]

I'm not really saying anything in particular about combat, except that it sucks. Actually I think the main appeal of the game for a lot of players is the risk associated with being "permadeath", full-loot, and open pvp. That doesn't necessarily mean pvp is the main reason why they play, but it makes it more interesting than a simple Farmville environment.

Most players lack the tools and experience in order to reach the level they should ideally be at in order for them to have some chance at successfully participating in pvp. When they try to obtain that experience, the game has this self-perpetuating cycle where faction raiders that already have the advantage begin attacking and looting less experienced players and not only depriving them of the opportunity to catch up, but getting further ahead themselves by making use of the stuff they steal. "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" or something like that I forget the actual quote.

If jorb and loftar were under siege they can just do what anybody under siege can do which is announce on forum that there is pvpers camping in a specific location for 24h and anybody who likes to pvp can come get a free fight. Then bash the siege machines with alts in the 5 min window. Youre not seriously going to act like its hard to defend sieges now are you? Theres a limit to how whiny you can be

Whoosh.
The point: --->
You: 웃

[DDDsDD999]

I'm not really saying anything in particular about combat, except that it sucks.

It's vaguely fun in a group scenario, but that's mostly because it's a matter of team coordination, which basically any game with group combat also has.

The devs don't seem to have any clear vision for what combat should be, so all their combat rework attempts have failed. The only real hope for a good combat rework is loftar saying they've considered hiring someone specifically to make a combat system.