Kingdoms

[Avu]

You probably couldn't handle the "action" if you indeed got it.

[Clemence]

I dont understand this :

PvP should primarily happen between oppositions on the same order of magnitude. Kingdom vs Kingdom, Hermit vs Hermit, Village vs Village.

In this system, kingdom can still attack villages and villages attack hermit.
It just give more avantages to big factions, village are protected by brickwall and kindom by superbricwall that is the no pvp for foreigners.
So big factions are not powerfull enough, they need super safe zone ?

[lachlaan]

Also agree that this discussion should be put on the backburner until later on, but the most obvious ways of exploiting it should be prevented from ever having effort pumped into them to prevent Jorb/Loftar from clinging onto the idea simply because it has already had work put into it.

That said, I feel like depending on the cost of it, there's always going to be the risk that they end up snowballing like the village claims of Salem, where recently the price has been bumped up to 8500s and even that doesn't stop some people from griefing with them provided the scouted profit be sufficient.

So I ask only that the devs keep in mind that economic aspect of it when pondering how to shape the balance between how they can be dropped and how people can react to the situation. Otherwise 20 flags towards a village claim might be cheaper than normal raiding methods, and people would spiderweb their way to major objectives. At this point what is important is what happens if a town doesn't choose to annex a town it has covered. Does said town have rights to do crime? If not then that's an issue. If instead anyone under the shadow of the kingdom claim gets citizenship automatically, then there need to be other mechanisms in place to prevent other people from later dropping claims on kingdom terrain so as to gain murder powers. And last but not least, how would an usurped people ever fight against evil overlords that can just summon them on presumably some of the worse scents they could drop?

[Kaios]

And last but not least, how would an usurped people ever fight against evil overlords that can just summon them on presumably some of the worse scents they could drop?

Certainly some thought is needed, the situation reminds me of Chief's treaty in Salem except the difference being that their claim over someone's territory/village/items/persons was created by their own will where as in this case the developers are giving players the tools for an actual in-game implementation that sort of creates that scenario.

Another major difference being that if you didn't abide by their rules, your village would be crushed and your character probably killed. In this case that does not need to happen which I believe is exactly the point, hermits and small villages usually with palisade walls only have always been easy targets for large villages but the attempt here would be to make it so its worth more to a village to keep those players alive and safe rather than destroy them completely.

When has it ever been that a hermit or small village was able to fight back against a larger village through means of their own? It was never the case which is why in world 3 we had superpowers that actually went out and did ranging, tracked the bad guys, kept their grid safe. Going back to that sort of play is not a bad thing.

Also you guys do understand that if a village/kingdom is friendly they'll probably ask before claiming over you, right? And that if they went with the no crime thing on any "Royal Claim" rather than a set location that you also reap the benefits of that siege and crime protection.

[lachlaan]

And last but not least, how would an usurped people ever fight against evil overlords that can just summon them on presumably some of the worse scents they could drop?

See response above.

The question isn't about the possible cases, it's about the extreme cases. What I'd like them to have honest input on is how people would exploit these mechanics, and believe me someone would find a way. The issue is just that most people either don't get a chance to say they would and how, or if they get the chance they don't and just make use of it. But all of the major outlines of the mechanic need to be defined first and then brought back into this thread for further discussion. Just don't drop it like a bomb once it's ready though and give people reason to say "I told you so"

Edited because Loftar hates spoiler tags. Cheers MagicMan for the headsup. Had noticed but didn't care enough to edit it past that point xD

[LadyV]

I like the idea of having kingdoms. However there must be some exceptions. No kingdom can claim over an unwilling person. Unlike real life these are people playing a game. Kingdoms should be willing entity's. Forcing a player to be a part of a kingdom may be fun to some but not all or even most. It is also a way to kill paying subscribers.

If you can forma kingdom of willing members fine. Hashing our kingdom perks and abilities can then go forward but unless there is a consensus on individual play style it will fail.

[Archiplex]

I like the idea of having kingdoms. However there must be some exceptions. No kingdom can claim over an unwilling person. Unlike real life these are people playing a game. Kingdoms should be willing entity's. Forcing a player to be a part of a kingdom may be fun to some but not all or even most. It is also a way to kill paying subscribers.

If you can forma kingdom of willing members fine. Hashing our kingdom perks and abilities can then go forward but unless there is a consensus on individual play style it will fail.

I don't see why someone would quit due to being part of a kingdom, but there should really be a good way to fight back against kingdoms who do not want to vassalize you - not allowing crime on royal claims is a huge abuse point

[Kaios]

I like the idea of having kingdoms. However there must be some exceptions. No kingdom can claim over an unwilling person. Unlike real life these are people playing a game. Kingdoms should be willing entity's. Forcing a player to be a part of a kingdom may be fun to some but not all or even most. It is also a way to kill paying subscribers.

If you can forma kingdom of willing members fine. Hashing our kingdom perks and abilities can then go forward but unless there is a consensus on individual play style it will fail.

Not so sure I agree with that sentiment, usually a player is unwilling to die and yet they continue to pay for and play the game knowing full well that their character, possessions and entire land could be lost at any time. What is so different about that? Victims aren't willing when raiders kill them, they aren't willing when their base gets raided and their property stolen.

[venatorvenator]

You're all talking as if everything is already decided with no chance of change.

There are so many other options and tweaks besides the extreme of no-crime zone and forced annexation, and also so many variables for handling these even if there weren't, that any outrage is pointless and completely useless for the devs.

It's a great idea, and I'm happy they want to work on this aspect of the game. I realize there's nothing else to say really. It's not an update, but rather a leaked development discussion.

[lachlaan]

You're all talking as if everything is already decided with no chance of change.

There are so many other options and tweaks besides the extreme of no-crime zone and forced annexation, and also so many variables for handling these even if there weren't, that any outrage is pointless and completely useless for the devs.

It's a great idea, and I'm happy they want to work on this aspect of the game. I realize there's nothing else to say really. It's not an update, but rather a leaked development discussion.

It is a great idea, and among some protests there are other ideas being thrown around. That imo helps Jorb/loftar explore areas of the idea that they may have overlooked. It's productive I think, and they don't need to take any of our feedback into account, but if nothing else they should use us as a quantum computer's retarded cousin, bruteforcing through all the possible aspects of the mechanic via a multitude of different players and their ideas and concerns on the topic. But again, I agree it's early for all this, so Jorb or Loftar should post and tell us all to stfu until they reveal it to us when it's ready(tm)