New world?

General discussion and socializing.

Re: New world?

Postby shubla » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:48 pm

Hasta wrote:
shubla wrote:This would encourage me to bot even more so I can get lumberjack beard.
Because no one would ever chop 1000 trees with energy level OVER 9000 because you'd have to eat after each time you chop a tree. It would take eternity to do this, and I doubt anyone has use for so much wood.

Then only your bot would have a beard =)
The numbers may be off but the premise is, I believe, valid: non-transferrable cosmetic rewards for achievements that can be unlocked via prolonged and varied ingame activities. So, if you want your "main" character to get that beard, you'll have to "bot" with your main character.

That wouldnt be issue
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Re: New world?

Postby Jalpha » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:56 pm

jorb wrote:See, this is a problem with us saying anything about anything. We mention that we may have a way to do bridges, and soon enough the word on the forum is that you "were promised". Tsk-tsk-tsk.


I'm overstating the issue largely for amusement value, don't take it too much to heart. That being said there are some issues with the end-game and I honestly believe they are convoluted and consist of many more elements than PvP or terraforming alone.

jorb wrote:How would you have it work?


Terraforming could use some enhancements such as being able to pave and level ground directly from a wheelbarrow, mostly the levelling aspect is a very tedious task currently given the size of some of the slopes you can end up working with. Quarrying would be much less painful if it also benefited from the convenience bonus but I don't know if that would be unfair (even though the only true advantage to paving currently is aesthetics) so maybe just some kind of tool bonus for quarrying, which is the most practical method of acquiring sufficient stone for large paving tasks despite the long action timer. Unless you would find it interesting to develop some kind of conveyor belt to bring ore and stone to the surface from deep underground.

I think the world would be much more dynamic if actual built roads gave sufficient movement bonus to make the effort worthwhile but I don't know if that's practical, particularly without bridges. Substantially lowering stamina drain at higher movement speeds, while on pavement, for mounts as well, could go a long way.

I don't want to distract from issues which should have a higher priority though to be honest. I believe PvP is the soul of this game and is why people continue to play long after the carebears have quit. If it were further enhanced the farmers and builders would likely stick around in a larger capacity as support. I liked the idea of node based PvP and some of the fights around salt nodes for example were a great example of the potential, particularly as raiding is a massive time sink which many people are unlikely to bother with (as it should be imo). Personally my biggest gripe with combat is the way character movement works. It's utterly terrifying moving near obstacles in combat, the character model doesn't feel nimble and maneuverable at all.

More experienced players have raised other concerns like the card system, how decks are built for specific purposes and how it's impossible to switch decks in combat. Switching decks in combat should be possible, at some cost though I am sure. I am however not the best person to make suggestions on improving PvP. I just can't understate its importance. All roads in Hafen lead to PvP

You have made good progress though, I think the evidence is clear in how the server has sustained a large population for so long.

As a final point I should also raise the matter of the social nature of Hafen and its potential to retain the playerbase. That aspect is largely in the hands of the community and it's still a learning curve for some of us on how best to work with the tools we have to create a positive social atmosphere to hold onto a greater proportion of players. Inevitably though players need purpose, they need things to do, and they want to have fun doing them. Larping isn't enough for everyone.

Edit: In light of further comments I would like to say that perhaps rather than lifting the level cap there should be more reason for players at the cap to risk losing their characters, and for that loss to actually occur. Level cap is like a double edged blade really, it has positives and negatives.
Last edited by Jalpha on Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New world?

Postby Enjoyment » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:58 pm

Ozzy123 wrote:It should be like that becouse a guy that plays it for 1 year says so?

Ozzy123 wrote:If you disagree with me, then go on, I can't tell you how to play but you can ask all the players from big factions and they will agree with me.

Ozzy, I know you're a wise man and know a lot abot this game and I do respect you. But, may I ask - what is the % of "players from big factions" among whole player-base? Why do they should be authorities? Just cause they've played w1-w7? Cmon, that H&H is gone. J&L decided to make new H&H from scratch, and both u and Porterwake played this game for exact period. Just like most of "players from big factions". So why devs should make them game simillar to the old game they've decided to left? No offence, but maybe, just maybe, it is not "game that doesn't fit for most known players", but "most known players doesn't fit that game"?
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Re: New world?

Postby shubla » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:01 pm

Enjoyment wrote: J&L decided to make new H&H from scratch,

um. Actually they didnt.
They just repurposed old code which is partially reason why its so difficult to do things like bridges.
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Re: New world?

Postby Enjoyment » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:06 pm

Jalpha wrote: I believe PvP is the soul of this game

Can u even imagine that u wrong in that 9 words? What than?
About Haven & Hearth

Haven & Hearth is a MMORPG (Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game) set in a fictional world loosely inspired by Slavic and Germanic myth and legend. The game sets itself apart from other games in the genre in its aim to provide players with an interactive, affectable and mutable game world, which can be permanently and fundamentally changed and affected through actions undertaken by the players. Our fundamental goal with Haven & Hearth is to create a game in which player choices have permanent and/or lasting effects and, thus, providing said players with a meaningful and fun gaming experience.

I don't see any PvP here...
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Re: New world?

Postby Jalpha » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:19 pm

Well compare Wurm online. They have PvP and PvE servers. To retain playerbase on the PvE servers they have a grind that is far beyond any I have encountered in any other game, and terraforming/building/production mechanics which are intentionally made time consuming to extend the end-game. It's a crap system, but it kindof works because they have PvE specific servers where people pour a lot of time into developing public infrastructure like roads and an in-game currency based on rl money.

Then the PvP servers are just another thing entirely, very much like what we see in Hafen. Bases are constructed using the minimum amount of effort, unless they have poured countless hundreds if not thousands of hours into defensive wall slopes so steep you have to activate climbing to scale them. There are no public roads, it's dangerous to leave the walls, etc.

In Hafen there is only one server where PvPers and PvErs are attempting to exist and are doing so largely in disharmony. But it's a PvP server, the whole map, and that means that PvP dominates everything. If you are asking whether there should be a PvE and PvP server then I think it probably would not be sustainable to split the current player population.
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Re: New world?

Postby Enjoyment » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:35 pm

Jalpha wrote:Well compare Wurm online. They have PvP and PvE servers. To retain playerbase on the PvE servers they have a grind that is far beyond any I have encountered in any other game, and terraforming/building/production mechanics which are intentionally made time consuming to extend the end-game. It's a crap system, but it kindof works because they have PvE specific servers where people pour a lot of time into developing public infrastructure like roads and an in-game currency based on rl money.

Then the PvP servers are just another thing entirely, very much like what we see in Hafen. Bases are constructed using the minimum amount of effort, unless they have poured countless hundreds if not thousands of hours into defensive wall slopes so steep you have to activate climbing to scale them. There are no public roads, it's dangerous to leave the walls, etc.

In Hafen there is only one server where PvPers and PvErs are attempting to exist and are doing so largely in disharmony. But it's a PvP server, the whole map, and that means that PvP dominates everything. If you are asking whether there should be a PvE and PvP server then I think it probably would not be sustainable to split the current player population.

THIS. GAME. IS. NOT. WURM ONLINE.
It is either not WoW, CoW, Sow or any other game. It is even not Salem. Stop comparin. If you like Wurm - go play wurm. If you like H&H - play H&H. But don't complain why H&H doesnt have the mechanics of Wurm.

By the way, I accept H&H more like The Greatest MMO of All Times - Ultima. Not as Ultima-clone. But as the very unique pocket-game, growed to genre-founder state.
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Re: New world?

Postby Ysh » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:42 pm

Enjoyment wrote:
Jalpha wrote:Well compare Wurm online. They have PvP and PvE servers. To retain playerbase on the PvE servers they have a grind that is far beyond any I have encountered in any other game, and terraforming/building/production mechanics which are intentionally made time consuming to extend the end-game. It's a crap system, but it kindof works because they have PvE specific servers where people pour a lot of time into developing public infrastructure like roads and an in-game currency based on rl money.

Then the PvP servers are just another thing entirely, very much like what we see in Hafen. Bases are constructed using the minimum amount of effort, unless they have poured countless hundreds if not thousands of hours into defensive wall slopes so steep you have to activate climbing to scale them. There are no public roads, it's dangerous to leave the walls, etc.

In Hafen there is only one server where PvPers and PvErs are attempting to exist and are doing so largely in disharmony. But it's a PvP server, the whole map, and that means that PvP dominates everything. If you are asking whether there should be a PvE and PvP server then I think it probably would not be sustainable to split the current player population.

THIS. GAME. IS. NOT. WURM ONLINE.
It is either not WoW, CoW, Sow or any other game. It is even not Salem. Stop comparin. If you like Wurm - go play wurm. If you like H&H - play H&H. But don't complain why H&H doesnt have the mechanics of Wurm.

By the way, I accept H&H more like The Greatest MMO of All Times - Ultima. Not as Ultima-clone. But as the very unique pocket-game, growed to genre-founder state.

''Stop learning from other things!!!''
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Re: New world?

Postby Burinn » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:44 pm

Ysh wrote:
''Stop learning from other things!!!''


That is such a strawman and you know it Ysh.
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Re: New world?

Postby Hasta » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:46 pm

Ysh wrote:''Stop learning from other things!!!''

It's not about "not learning", rather it's about trying to create something more or less original and unique.

As for having PvE server, the concern would be not only dividing the scarse enough population in two groups, but those things Loftar listed in "The developers thought on PvP" thread.
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