Is Brexit rooted in deep psychological white-guilt?

[Sollar]

Politics behind Brexit, future of UK and of EU is too complex to summarize it here - or anywhere that is. There is much uncertainty. There are some facts though - EU bureaucracy is at an all time high, time and money are spent without any real benefits, huge resources are spent just to cover the costs of all the EU Parlaiment employees. Also no one has a real solution against (or supporting that is) the immigration

UK on the other hand does politics like their national team plays football. The LEAVE outcome was not desired by anyone (even the LEAVE party - proof of that is that no one is prepared to actually leave). Cameron was betting on winning the referendum to keep his position, while the LEAVE party most desirable outcome would have been to get a big score while still remaining in EU - this would have place them in a favorable position to give the next prime-minister.

Now pretty much everyone is fucked and have to think a way to either leave or stay. But fast ...

[MagicManICT]

Now pretty much everyone is fucked and have to think a way to either leave or stay. But fast ...

Yeah, I hear that they have less than two years to renegotiate a ton of trade agreements and get immigration policies and such in place.

GL with that. The way the British bureaucracy moves (about like the US), they'll be lucky to get half of it done in time to keep the country from blowing up economically or otherwise. And then we might be in the middle of another major world recession.

Can we go back to isolationism now, or is it too late?

[Onep]

Isolationist America was Best America.
I'd love to see the rest of the world burn while we sit on our hands again. Lord knows you people can't stop murdering each other.

[dageir]

Isolationist America was Best America.
I'd love to see the rest of the world burn while we sit on our hands again. Lord knows you people can't stop murdering each other.

Rule Britannia!

[jorb]

Isolationist America was Best America.

Except it is a complete historical myth. The Monroe doctrine was promulgated in 1823, so already by that time the United States had made its institutionalized imperial ambitions quite clear.

[ArvinJA]

4rh to the inbox folder and then I will be a good time to get the same as the one I have a nice weekend and I will be a good idea for me and I will be a good time to get the same as the one I have a great day and I will be a bit more about the possibility of a new thread for this useful post.

[ven]

Isolationist America was Best America.
I'd love to see the rest of the world burn while we sit on our hands again. Lord knows you people can't stop murdering each other.

I'm sure that's also how Canada feels about the US

[Eemerald]

Politics behind Brexit, future of UK and of EU is too complex to summarize it here - or anywhere that is. There is much uncertainty. There are some facts though - EU bureaucracy is at an all time high, time and money are spent without any real benefits, huge resources are spent just to cover the costs of all the EU Parlaiment employees. Also no one has a real solution against (or supporting that is) the immigration

UK on the other hand does politics like their national team plays football. The LEAVE outcome was not desired by anyone (even the LEAVE party - proof of that is that no one is prepared to actually leave). Cameron was betting on winning the referendum to keep his position, while the LEAVE party most desirable outcome would have been to get a big score while still remaining in EU - this would have place them in a favorable position to give the next prime-minister.

Now pretty much everyone is fucked and have to think a way to either leave or stay. But fast ...

I still find it difficult to believe that Britain has managed to get itself to a stage where we are now in limbo and everyone is too scared to actually start proceedings to leave the EU.

I also found the following amusing:
- The number of immigrants voting to leave,
- The number of Brits who live and work in the EU who were pro Brexit,
- The delusions that somehow the EU will give the UK a great deal with no movement of people in the single market,
- The fact that much of the leave campaign revolved around securing borders and reducing immigration from Europe while at the same time saying that they want to build better relationships with commonwealth countries which in turn will bring in migrants just from elsewhere in the world,
- That suddenly men who were always apposed to the foundations of the NHS were suddenly going to spend the apparent 350 million we'd be saving a week on it
- The fact that some Brexisters claimed they were fine with Europeans but didn't want the Muslims was a reason to vote out of the European Union...
- That some Brits didn't think their vote would count in a referendum where every vote counts
- The instant backtracking of every senior politician who was part of Brexit who suddenly went 'oh shit, we broke it'
- The fact Farage actually attended parliament (a job he's been paid to do by the EU that he's campaigned to leave) just to rub it in their faces that he did it, only now to resign his position as leader of UKip, the same position he resigned from for a day after NOT being elected as an MP in the UK last year.
- This is more worrying than amusing, but that many people decided to find out what the EU was the day after they voted on what is essentially the biggest decision we are likely to make as British citizens in our life time.

As for the posed question at the start, I don't quite see how Brexit is rooted in white guilt, when much of the bullshit we were fed was lies based on what foreigners do or might do to our country and a fuelling of fear based on this.

I think what Brexit shows is two things:

1- How badly connected people feel to Europe and the benefits we receive from Europe- including infrastructure, research, education, the free movement around Europe which most have taken for granted, the fact that as brits we've never bothered with languages, we just expect everyone else to speak English and with that comes some arrogance as to our positioning within Europe is some ways
2- The terrible education and awareness people have politically to understand these issues and challenge blatant lies and misinformation when they are being fed it.

rant over!

[LadyV]

Isolationist America was Best America.
I'd love to see the rest of the world burn while we sit on our hands again. Lord knows you people can't stop murdering each other.

Although there is a part of me that is tired of us always solving issues others let flame onwards I can't say it's right for people to suffer. And no, isolationist America was not best. War always popped on our doorstep when we didn't want it. I think it is much more healthy to stomp those flames out before they get to big.

As for the reference to the Monroe Doctrine another made...

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1801-1829/monroe

It was at British behest we do so and when we thought about it we remembered two wars, seizure of our citizens and shipping, and the burning of our national capital. So we told them now and swore the full might of our nation to protect the America's. Did this give us unbridled economic power, yes. But since we were enforcing the decree with our men and ships I think it was a fair trade to help pay for it. Now later years when it was used to justify other things that may be different but it's aim was not imperialistic.

However as I said I do understand your frustrations with the world.

[LadyV]

White guilt is the individual or collective guilt felt by some white people for harm resulting from racist treatment of ethnic minorities by other white people both historically and currently.

It can be characterized as a strong, emotional feeling of direct responsibility for the unequal circumstances of ethnic minorities living in historically and culturally European nations, or the Western world largely due to historical exclusion of non-whites from mainstream white society. Discomfort when talking about issues involving race is also a common characteristic of white guilt.

Many pro-voters for Brexit have cited their reasoning being because of forced immigration regulations by the European Union. Personally, I believe the majority of these concerns are rooted in deep psychological white-guilt for previous invasions of culturally rich lands such as Sierra Leone. How does the haven community feel about this?

I don't think it is either. I think it is a normal reaction to losing national identity and power. All the nations in the Eu are ethnic homelands and for so long their own states. Now they have come together and in order to work you must sacrifice ideas to achieve a working government. When those ideas are centuries old mindsets its a hard nut to swallow. Toss in foreign migrants and you see people realizing what they are losing by being open. The want to be British, not European. Britain has multi cultures and nationalities for a long time. It is more a battle of traditional vs. progressive. The progressive favors a new European culture rather than a local British one.

Is it right? I don't know. But I do understand the desire to remain who you have been for so long and control over your own destiny vs. being one voice in a group.