sweden is a terrible country

[Trappin]

MagicManICT - By contrast John Adams was quite solemn about democracy’s power and prospects. In his mind, democracy always and necessarily leads to a precarious, fragile status. It does not guarantee freedom, but requires being put to use by people who are both wise and moral. That is why he urged education as indispensable to democracy.

Morality and a solid education.

[Kaios]

(Am I trolling or being serious? hmm... hard to say.)

It's definitely a real issue. I believe when the US Armed Forces did IQ testing they required that to join you had to have an IQ of at least 83. This meant that roughly 10% of the population (or every 1 in 10 people) did not meet the requirements to join an organization that is desperate for recruits/workers. I think they issue a different sort of test now that determines the intelligence of the individual differently but still if you end up failing this test and refuse to take further education then technically you still don't meet the IQ requirements to join and are refused on that basis.

This leaves a significant portion of the population either struggling to make ends meet working a very low paying manual labour job or the inability to obtain any job at all without further education.

[Jalpha]

I guess I can't contribute much in a forum where many members country of origin doesn't even provide free healthcare yet, let alone welfare. Why is this socialist influence a good thing?

It equates to a high standard of living across the board for just about everyone. That's not how capitalism works. Capitalism demands more output that input and that is not sustainable over any meaningful timeline.

Democracy is just the result of needing a better system to control a more intelligent population and right now it seems a bit stretched along the seams. It's almost as though when we inevitably become more intelligent again the whole system will come tumbling down (if nothing changes). Who is actually religious these days as well? A more intelligent population base is exponentially more difficult to manage and control. I'm quite certain there are other means being experimented with, such as financial burden and stress.

How to control a population base as intelligent as you are hmmm...

[Kaios]

I live in Canada and we do have a universal health-care system which covers most health care services and is paid for through taxes. The province I live in, Ontario, also has an Ontario Works program which does provide welfare for singles and families with low incomes.

I mostly use US statistics because America is the more controversial country in these discussions and I'm also very interested in world politics in general and not just the political map of my own country.

A universal basic income might be necessary one day but I still don't think that is the best solution in terms of societal advancements. Why should a conservative work their entire life just to have a liberal say "hey lemme get some of that cash too!"

[DatSheep]

I live in Canada and we do have a universal health-care system which covers most health care services and is paid for through taxes. The province I live in, Ontario, also has an Ontario Works program which does provide welfare for singles and families with low incomes.

I mostly use US statistics because America is the more controversial country in these discussions and I'm also very interested in world politics in general and not just the political map of my own country.

A universal basic income might be necessary one day but I still don't think that is the best solution in terms of societal advancements. Why should a conservative work their entire life just to have a liberal say "hey lemme get some of that cash too!"

It's more generation gap/age gap, which usually ends up in the older dudes being conservatives and younger liberals. But money isn't being taken and given hypothetically because of political views, just to clear that up. It's cause of the baby boomers and those who were able to amass a good sum of wealth when the economy was nice, while us younger gen z and maybe millennials too, are thought to be a gen that'll earn less than their parents in such a competitive, over saturated workforce/economy system. We're not necessarily entitled to someone else's hard-earned or not-so-hard-earned money, but welfare has to be a thing, otherwise the population suffers and crime runs rampant with no other options for people with little opportunity. Taxes have to come from somewhere. For the ridiculously wealthy it makes sense, especially those who commit felonies anyways and ought to be fined, in turn that money goes to the lesser-fortunate (if it even does ). I know welfare isnt what you're talking about, but it is one of the first big steps that we can't afford to lose, if one day universal basic income happens.

[Kaios]

I'm in agreement that gen-z and millienials have a tougher go at it but I would only support a universal basic income for those who have lost their job due to the growing use of automation in production industries. The main issue I have with this though is that many people don't seem to consider the implications of paying people for doing nothing. If you had to choose which system creates better people, would you choose Capitalism or Socialism? I have a hard time believing giving people something for nothing will motivate them to continue working hard.

It goes beyond the scope of objective reality though when you consider the existential reasonings of giving your life meaning. People would feel useless and that is not a good thing.

[MagicManICT]

It's definitely a real issue. I believe when the US Armed Forces did IQ testing they required that to join you had to have an IQ of at least 83. This meant that roughly 10% of the population (or every 1 in 10 people) did not meet the requirements to join an organization that is desperate for recruits/workers.

I'm not sure what the standards are internationally, but the indicators for mental retardation start around there... You really can be the village idiot and still join the infantry. You just need to be smart enough to follow directions.

The US military also has requirements for weight, height, physical fitness, mental health, and physical health. I'd guess only about 15-20% of the population would immediately for service in the armed forces, and about 60-70% of the population could qualify with some physical training (weight loss, improvement to fitness). That still leaves a sizeable portion that can't meet either of the health requirements. You can then also subtract about 1-2% of the population because they've had certain felony offenses at some point in their life, even if it was as a juvenile and the records were sealed or expunged.

Morality and a solid education.

Morality comes as a part of a well-rounded education that includes philosophical studies, which we almost completely ignore these days. The question is... who's morality should we follow?

[Kaios]

I can't remember who did the study but I remember reading that average IQ has been declining in the West as the study indicated intelligent people are having fewer or no children in comparison to the number of children being born to those with lower IQ's. It was estimated at .12 to 1.6 points of decline every decade since the Victorian era.

That is a pretty scary statistic though when you think about it even if it may not come as a surprise to most.

Edit: Here it is.

[DatSheep]

I'm in agreement that gen-z and millienials have a tougher go at it but I would only support a universal basic income for those who have lost their job due to the growing use of automation in production industries. The main issue I have with this though is that many people don't seem to consider the implications of paying people for doing nothing. If you had to choose which system creates better people, would you choose Capitalism or Socialism? I have a hard time believing giving people something for nothing will motivate them to continue working hard.

It goes beyond the scope of objective reality though when you consider the existential reasonings of giving your life meaning. People would feel useless and that is not a good thing.

Yeah dude, I'm all for working if you're able otherwise no cash handout for you. A basic universal income may not ever be what it implies, since there's millions if not billions who need it much more than others. They'd be catered to first I hope, the emaciated and very poor, the displaced, refugees, and then near-poverty families, single parents, etc.

[ricky]

I can't remember who did the study but I remember reading that average IQ has been declining in the West as the study indicated intelligent people are having fewer or no children in comparison to the number of children being born to those with lower IQ's. It was estimated at .12 to 1.6 points of decline every decade since the Victorian era.

That is a pretty scary statistic though when you think about it even if it may not come as a surprise to most.

Edit: Here it is.

So, Idiocracy was right all along