two main types of players

[WowGain]

I'm not playing right now, but I get a Snakeskin Belt (3x2) early on and eventually switch to a Grand Belt (3x3). I haven't had an Exquisite Belt or Troll Belt in a while because high-value trade has been shit for a while, silkmaking is tedious and I can't solo a troll.

cool so just more reasons to ignore your opinion lol
"im lazy, why am i not able to do the same things that other people that play better and who care more about actually doing stuff in the game can!"

i refer back to snail, water is not your issue. the issue is that you are playing like a silverfish and expecting to get anything out of it beyond being smashed
you can make as many excuses as you want but even if i gave you a free trollbelt it would be useless in your hands, that is the definitive truth.

[strpk0]

I kinda get the feeling this game doesn't get alot of balancing done, instead most work seems to go towards new features or something. But I'm pretty new here too and most info I got is from what little time I've got playing, talking to older players and reading up on the forum in random posts here and there.

Yeah you're 100% spot on, most of the issues with the game is the seemingly short attention span the devs have and the proclivity for them to go off and add more and more new features into the game that just become more and more things for them to have to fix and bandaid down the line (or ignore completely and leave in a broken/unbalanced state), and it's been snowballing that way for years.

[VDZ]

I'm not playing right now, but I get a Snakeskin Belt (3x2) early on and eventually switch to a Grand Belt (3x3). I haven't had an Exquisite Belt or Troll Belt in a while because high-value trade has been shit for a while, silkmaking is tedious and I can't solo a troll.

cool so just more reasons to ignore your opinion lol
"im lazy, why am i not able to do the same things that other people that play better and who care more about actually doing stuff in the game can!"

i refer back to snail, water is not your issue. the issue is that you are playing like a silverfish and expecting to get anything out of it beyond being smashed
you can make as many excuses as you want but even if i gave you a free trollbelt it would be useless in your hands, that is the definitive truth.

So in addition to it being totally fine that you need 5 waterskins in any given situation outside of your base, you are also arguing that it only makes sense that anybody who doesn't have access to silk (i.e., the vast majority of players) cannot escape from PvP attacks? And that, for basic survival, every player should go through a process which involves, assuming you want to do it in one go rather than having the process take ages:

• Collecting 14+ appropriately gendered silkworms (which die after 24 hours)
• Building and reserving 9 cupboards exclusively for doing this
• Building 7 herbalist tables
• Collecting 400 mulberry leaves (bonus points: not every place has mulberry trees. But no problem! Just plant a billion trees and wait for ages instead!)
• Performing an in-game activity and then having to return exactly between 7 and and 14 hours later or you will lose all of your progress and resources

Every player who doesn't want to go through all that deserves to instantly lose all of their gear whenever they come across a hostile player. Oh, and should you ever fail to escape after that your belt will get stolen and you have to go through the process all over again.

I'm not complaining that I can't escape PvPers. I've already accepted my fate and only put up token resistance to check if my pursuers know what they're doing. I'm saying that for the average player, PvP is inescapable, and that it makes zero sense to have to go through an incredibly grindy process to be able to utilize an unintuitive strategy to have a chance of not losing in a PvP attack away from your base, a process that must be repeated every time you do lose. And that's not even the only problem - with thingwall teleports, you can be hours away from your base, and I do not consider hours of running to be engaging gameplay. If you teleported to another continent, you're entirely fucked because you won't get to safety no matter how long you run.

The optimal way to handle PvP attacks with significant stat difference is to just let it happen and accept that you lose your gear. Even if you put tons of effort into preparation, the best case situation is that you end up running for ages to avoid losing your inventory and gear. (Attacks near your own base are perfectly survivable, but you don't need more than two waterskins for that.)

[SnuggleSnail]

[Vraatjuh]

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Cool. A picture made in the first weeks of the server I am sure?

VDZ is ofcourse 100% right that it is completely retarded that any casual needs to carry 5 flasks of water in their belt (and still get killed by pvp'ers).
Also your argument that you just have to get a silk/troll belt is silly, since even for a casual that will still take up to a month from the start of the world whereas you get it in week 1~2 and for certain don't wait with killing till we all had a chance to get a good belt so the playingfield is more even.

The only way to gain pvp experience in this game is to go out and get yourself killed anyway and lose a big part of your progression. For some people that is fun gameplay, but for 90% that just completely sucks so they stay away from it as much as possible. So when the time does come that they get caught off-guard, they will always die. If you want to make pvp better, make the punishment less severe and people will actually go out and practice.

"But the punishment is already so much less severe than it used to be, idiot." - Yes, but apparently it is still not worth it for most people to try and PvP.

[wolf1000wolf]

Jorb and loftar should just send an actual poll to their playerbase (past and present) to figure out what % of them actually plays HnH for the "sandbox pvp" experience or just for the extensive sandbox pve portion.

No need for polls. They can just check logs/statistics about how many characters frequently kill others.

this is completely invalid first few days of every world proves that the MAJORITY only stop being hostile because they simply can't anymore due to everyone advancing faster than them. the amount of times random shitters steal a boat or just straight up annoy you because you cant attack them yet is insane.

Hence the need for a poll. At this point however, there is the that niggling question of exactly what plans/goals the devs have for HnH.

[Seriouskai]

What I'm getting from the people that clearly can't relate to players with different playstyles or goals than themselves is, if you don't have a silk or troll belt just for waterskins which _might_ give you a chance to escape, maybe, if lucky, you're not allowed to have an opinion. In fact you're apparently just fodder for pvp'ers not even worth listening to.

I'd love to have a proper discussion about it and how it _might_ relate to low player numbers or players leaving the game en masse, but the thought of putting in more than a tiny amount of effort here on the forum for it is just not worth it. Either you get a few decent comments or you get bashed by angry my way is the only way'ers, and the occasional troll. Hoping to be proved wrong though.

There's several ways that PVP can be altered which would potentially draw more casual players into it leading to more fun for everyone, or changing it in favour of the casual players which will scare off the hardcore PVP players but most likely draw in the farmers, explorers and hunters that left. But there will never ever be a way that makes everyone happy, and the more players the harder that line will be to walk.

[strpk0]

What I'm getting from the people that clearly can't relate to players with different playstyles or goals than themselves is, if you don't have a silk or troll belt just for waterskins which _might_ give you a chance to escape, maybe, if lucky, you're not allowed to have an opinion. In fact you're apparently just fodder for pvp'ers not even worth listening to.

I think its less about their playstyle being "invalid" and more about the type of game this is. People tend to take a stupid/emotional/"why are you killing me on a videogame this is unfair" angle on things instead of doing the minimal amount of effort to atleast learn to run away or deal with PvP situations in general. Where "shut up sprucecap" comes into play is when people both clearly don't know what they're talking about but they also want the game to change around them, instead of the other way around.

You can be a farmer/larper/etc (just as some can make it a point to kill everybody they see or raid others for fun), but why does that mean that other people should bend their behaviour on a sandbox game around it? If people want to do what they like in a game where killing them is a valid option, it seems obvious to me that they should also get good at the game so they don't sit there and die the moment somebody aggros them.

As for PvP drawing in more players (in a situation where they're not just running away, which again is easy, but instead they actually want to fight back), sure. People have been complaining for years about some very stupid progression mechanics that still plague the game, and make it almost a requirement to use bots for them, because nobody wants to interact with said mechanics yet the game gives a huge reward for doing so. Stuff like truffles, whales, pepper, etc that people have endlessly complained about yet they haven't been fixed (and don't seem like they ever will be fixed).

Stats aren't the only thing that decide PvP viability, not by a long shot as it takes some experience and practice to become decent at it, but these progression mechanics are so ridiculously overpowered that they actually eventually tip the scale completely and make it impossible for anyone new that doesn't use bots to even try.

[mulamishne]

There's several ways that PVP can be altered which would potentially draw more casual players into it leading to more fun for everyone

There is literally no end point to this, they already did change pvp to be INCREDIBLY more forgiving and we still get posts like this.

changing it in favour of the casual players which will scare off the hardcore PVP players but most likely draw in the farmers, explorers and hunters that left.

I see a lot less value in driving off people who tend to be very long time players.

[DoctorCookie]

get good

It is not a level playing field. The rules do not apply equally to all because a certain amount of, what most would call, cheating is tolerated or allowed. The community has not evolved in a way that checks and balances exist, so the devs have to put safeguards for player fun/retention in or admit that they want this to be an uber niche game for a small group where new players are simply meant to be meat, with a few sucking up enough to be allowed in. I have exquisite and troll belts, but I did not get them quickly. I am just hard headed and kept banging it against a wall. However, the experience today is not fun enough for new players to stick around and maintain a consistent population. There is a feeling, whether you want to admit it or not, that a small group of people want to kill the game and would take pleasure in watching it burn. Now proceed with the "retard" comments.