Why did you quit haven in w11? [Strawpoll]

[borka]

You just want to play a different game ...

... i want to play this game ...

and btw with a day 1 char there is no risk ...

[Granger]

and btw with a day 1 char there is no risk ...

I would put it as there being a risk, but the consequences of failure are so mild that most (if not all) take it.
But more and more players get risk averse with time, they seem to have a threshold from where they no longer see the chance of their character dying as an acceptable outcome, where the chance of loss is seen as worse than the chance of gain.

Certainly a psychological thing, possibly similar to how the anti-vaccine movement is based on.
No idea how to overcome this, all ideas I had toward this are either in production or have been voted down as punishing.

[Zentetsuken]

I don't get this poll.

"the game is too tedious or takes too much time"

So apparently 100 people have voted that the game is too tedious for them. So why are these 100 people here? This game has been the same amount of tedious for literally a fucking decade. Some things have become easier, some things have become harder. It's easier than ever to build your character up. There was a thread in C&I like a month ago about a guy showing how he can get stats to like 500 or some shit after only like 2 eating sessions? The entire concept of this game is built on tedium and menial tasks, the very fundamentals of the game demand tedium at every corner. If all of a sudden you decide you don't like a tedious game, or if these 100 people are truly current players who are part of the active playing population, isn't it just possible that your desire for this kind of game has gone stale? Maybe it's time to find a new game genre, or move on? Are you guys really demanding that J&L change the initial focus on the game, start from the bottom up and shift the fundamentals of the game to make it easier and less tedious? This seems absurd to me.


I can maybe understand balancing out the progression so that somebody who plays more or bots isn't leagues ahead, but on the other side of that coin, I remember taking pride in being ahead of other people in this game by playing more, and again, it's been this way for a decade.


I think there are definitely some things that can be improved and evolved to add the the quality of the game, things that would improve its longevity, like combat, siege, maybe some hunger system improvements, maybe even some sort of balancing between vets and noobs to level the playing field. I do also think we should be focusing on things that will keep people logging in. The population dying at this point in the game is not a new thing by any means. What would keep you logging in? Events? Special years that cause whacky changes and random shifts in foraging and animals and create a sense of rareness in new and existing items? More meteor-level events and resources?

The whole concept of this thread just seems borderline insulting to me.

"Hey, we're a lot older now, some of us have kids, jobs and our tastes have just naturally evolved over time, so can you change your entire game for us so we dont have to start playing something new?"

[Potjeh]

Because the game is fun in small doses. The problem is that you're virtually forced to play it in large doses. And no, the level of tedium isn't constant. Back in the day you could always do some casual shit like foraging for chantrelles or blueberries to trade, but these days the only way to buy something decent is tokens. And don't get me started on feeding animals, which I guess has gotten 10x worse with the addition of seasons.

[shubla]

Because the game is fun in small doses. The problem is that you're virtually forced to play it in large doses. And no, the level of tedium isn't constant. Back in the day you could always do some casual shit like foraging for chantrelles or blueberries to trade, but these days the only way to buy something decent is tokens. And don't get me started on feeding animals, which I guess has gotten 10x worse with the addition of seasons.

This.
Its very fun, but when you realize that you have spent most of your time awake on the game for the last 3 months and you cannot play any less or you will lose your animals and everything.. Then you stop completely!

[josemojicamarins]

I like to play H&H, otherwise I wouldn't be here in the forum making a post about why people drop the game. I am a real life trader, I take a risk every day, the difference between taking a risk in the futures market and H&H is the reason. I don't have a real reason to take a risk on H&H, kill another char and get an armor set, this will last 30 minutes of fun and I paid hours and hours of work for it every day of the week, I'm sure that if char development were less physically laborious, that is, I didn't have to spend 5 hours every day, spiraling quality, eating, crafting curio in an endless repetitive process, I could take the risk of permadeath. I used day 1 just as an example, but at the beginning of the world while activities have a final motive they become cool.

I need leather to make my palisade - It's a closed process where my action has an objective end

I need wax for the mine hole

I need to tar for my knar

This is different than I need to study, eat and spiral quality to my stats. Raising stats without a goal is not a clear end for a player, so their actions are without a concrete reason, it is just like everyday work, which is why you see a lot of people saying that the game looks more like a job rather than a game, and drop is almost a natural consequence, no one wants to come back from real life work and work harder for no very clear reason.

H&H legacy had a more interesting proposition than today's H&H, making development more environmentally dependent seems cooler and more attractive than allowing infinite grind within the palisade.

It is not impossible to fix that, in my view it involves some things as I said earlier, maybe making character development less laborious would be interesting

[Zentetsuken]

Because the game is fun in small doses. The problem is that you're virtually forced to play it in large doses. And no, the level of tedium isn't constant. Back in the day you could always do some casual shit like foraging for chantrelles or blueberries to trade, but these days the only way to buy something decent is tokens. And don't get me started on feeding animals, which I guess has gotten 10x worse with the addition of seasons.

This is just bullshit tbh. Whether you are in a large village or hermitting, there are tons of smaller and less tedious activities that one can do all the time. Hunting, foraging, crafting and exploring are all still highly relevant "casual activities" that are highly necessary. The tedium of building and maintaining a plot, farming and mining was always the same amount of tedious.

Also, the whole "looking after animals is shit now because seasons" is also utter, utter bullshit. If you are hermitting and can't look after the amount of animals you have, you have too many animals. If you are in a large village you probably have stockpiles of beets from 3 generations ago regardless of how many animals you have. Harvest on a bot while you make dinner or take a shit, wheelbarrow stockpiles in to a trough and your chores are done for a few days. You can have enough troughs to get you through winter put aside with almost no effort. You cannot tell me that 10 days of no farming is making all your animals die, and if it is you were just bad at managing livestock to begin with. There are so, so many ways to manage your numbers between livestock and farming that turn the entire chore in to an extremely passive nothink weekly task.

The tokens thing is true. I do wish there was more relevant things to trade and that more foragables and noob-friendly items were worth something like they were in legacy, but this issue is not covered in the poll. Also worth mentioning that the second J&L took a step to do something about it a small group of people screeched so loudly about it that they reverted the changes.

[Archiplex]

So apparently 100 people have voted that the game is too tedious for them. So why are these 100 people here? This game has been the same amount of tedious for literally a fucking decade.

It hasn't. It's improved in a LOT of ways, but not enough. Tedium has always been an issue, as well.

If all of a sudden you decide you don't like a tedious game, or if these 100 people are truly current players who are part of the active playing population, isn't it just possible that your desire for this kind of game has gone stale?

Putting in the assumption that this is a new thought. People have always complained about tediousness; we stick because we still love the game and have a passion for it.

Are you guys really demanding that J&L change the initial focus on the game, start from the bottom up and shift the fundamentals of the game to make it easier and less tedious? This seems absurd to me.

It's not absurd to appeal to your playerbase.

The population dying at this point in the game is not a new thing by any means.

Actually, it is. This world had the largest 'start' of any other world; having 70% more players than w10 did at it's start (and IIRC, even more than w8) and has lost a bigger percentage of the active playerbase much, much faster than any other world- last world took nearly TWO years to reach the point where we're hitting already.

"Hey, we're a lot older now, some of us have kids, jobs and our tastes have just naturally evolved over time, so can you change your entire game for us so we dont have to start playing something new?"

This game doesn't advertise. It has no marketing; we are what remains of Haven, and changing the game to appeal to your core playerbase is something every developer does if they want to retain an audience. I know the skills to run a game isn't exactly common sense, but unless you have a very large and dedicated base of players (which this game doesn't, it has a SMALL dedicated playerbase), you can't really afford to continually disappoint the audience without the game inevitably losing most of its population. Like what's happening. Right now.

[Ants]

This game doesn't advertise. It has no marketing; we are what remains of Haven, and changing the game to appeal to your core playerbase is something every developer does if they want to retain an audience. I know the skills to run a game isn't exactly common sense, but unless you have a very large and dedicated base of players (which this game doesn't, it has a SMALL dedicated playerbase), you can't really afford to continually disappoint the audience without the game inevitably losing most of its population. Like what's happening. Right now.

It might be good for the devs to start advertising the game when the core issues are solved. Right now I feel like newcomers would leave quickly.

[Zampfeo]

I've played on and off since World 3 each time being in a leadership role for a group of friends and some others. Most successful was probably in World 5 with trading empire Climax. We had a Q60 water well early in the server and sold a ton of it. Anyways, I lost interest over time because the prevalence of multiboxing and botting has grown so much it's basically the norm. My friends and I have never done either and I think it takes away a lot of the appeal of the game.

Additionally, Haven has always had an issue with stat and quality bloat which requires periodic server resets to fix. The devs have acknowledged the issue, but never seem to try to address this problem which I see as a big roadblock for Haven's success.

Also I think the new graphics look horrible compared to the old ones which were cleaner and more charming.

Yet, I still come back to see what's in development and refer to Haven all the time when discussing other games. I've had some of the best gaming experiences of my life via this game, but the time and sacrifice to immersion required has been too much for awhile. I toured W10 and W11, but neither drew me back in.