two main types of players

[strpk0]

get good

It is not a level playing field. The rules do not apply equally to all because a certain amount of, what most would call, cheating is tolerated or allowed. The community has not evolved in a way that checks and balances exist, so the devs have to put safeguards for player fun/retention in or admit that they want this to be an uber niche game for a small group where new players are simply meant to be meat, with a few sucking up enough to be allowed in. I have exquisite and troll belts, but I did not get them quickly. I am just hard headed and kept banging it against a wall. However, the experience today is not fun enough for new players to stick around and maintain a consistent population. There is a feeling, whether you want to admit it or not, that a small group of people want to kill the game and would take pleasure in watching it burn. Now proceed with the "retard" comments.

Boiling my post down to "get good" is kind of disingenuous isn't it? Did you even read it?
I'll be the first to admit (and have done so many times in the past) that this game is anything but a level playing field, mostly because of said broken progression mechanics I just mentioned, amongst other things.

There is a feeling, whether you want to admit it or not, that a small group of people want to kill the game and would take pleasure in watching it burn.

"Kill the game" is the way you see it, to people that have experienced the game and learned what it can be it's just having fun. The fact that so many people are basically NPCs in this game is another discussion entirely, partly their fault, partly the game's.

Now proceed with the "retard" comments.

None from me thanks, though I'd suggest that getting this defensive tends to attract these type of comments. Try having a discussion and listening to others instead of waving fingers at people and you'll find that a good portion of the people you dislike for the way they engage with the game are actually reasonable people.

[mulamishne]

get good

It is not a level playing field. The rules do not apply equally to all because a certain amount of, what most would call, cheating is tolerated or allowed.

What cheating is allowed? Afaik anyone who breaks any hard rules gets the old DI

[Vraatjuh]

get good

It is not a level playing field. The rules do not apply equally to all because a certain amount of, what most would call, cheating is tolerated or allowed.

What cheating is allowed? Afaik anyone who breaks any hard rules gets the old DI

Having a custom client to flatten land to make running (in mountains) a gazillion timers easier should be instant ban.
Yet it's a feature for everyone who has access to private clients but isn't available to the rest. That alone can make the biggest difference in PVP.

I would be surprised if some private clients don't have more advantages concerning running (auto running on specific terrain or whatever) or PVP in general.

[strpk0]

Having a custom client to flatten land to make running (in mountains) a gazillion timers easier should be instant ban.
Yet it's a feature for everyone who has access to private clients but isn't available to the rest. That alone can make the biggest difference in PVP.

You say this as if it's some sort of private super-secret feature that only a select few of hardcore "cheaters" have access to, it actually has been in a lot of public clients in the past.
And yes, the fact that mountains are so stupid and impossible to navigate without custom features is a good point, however why should players be banned for trying to get around said stupid design?

I'd say what should happen here is that visually flattening terrain should be a default client feature.

I would be surprised if some private clients don't have more advantages concerning running (auto running on specific terrain or whatever) or PVP in general.

Auto-running isn't a thing, because oftentimes these types of features can actually get you killed instead of being helpful.
As for PvP, yes, many private clients are heavily optimized around PvP. Again, I feel like these features aren't unreasonable and should instead be included in the default client.

- Being able to look at the combat interface and not have it shake around your character is a literal 5 second fix that somehow the devs haven't decided to implement.
- Having a drink keybind like many clients do on default client is to me an obvious feature that belongs in the game, instead of having to browse through your inventory for 20 seconds looking for a waterskin mid-combat.
- The list goes on, but PvP optimization in many clients is just improving clarity/availability of useful information to make it easier to make quick decisions when fighting.

[Vraatjuh]

Having a custom client to flatten land to make running (in mountains) a gazillion timers easier should be instant ban.
Yet it's a feature for everyone who has access to private clients but isn't available to the rest. That alone can make the biggest difference in PVP.

You say this as if it's some sort of private super-secret feature that only a select few of hardcore "cheaters" have access to, it actually has been in a lot of public clients in the past.
And yes, the fact that mountains are so stupid and impossible to navigate without custom features is a good point, however why should players be banned for trying to get around said stupid design?

I'd say what should happen here is that visually flattening terrain should be a default client feature.

In the past. Indeed. We do not all have the luxury to have custom clients that are being maintained and operational during the whole world cycle.
Gaining an advantage over another player in PvP by using custom clients that are only available to a small group should be pretty much a nono in my book indeed.

Auto-running isn't a thing, because oftentimes these types of features can actually get you killed instead of being helpful.
As for PvP, yes, many private clients are heavily optimized around PvP. Again, I feel like these features aren't unreasonable and should instead be included in the default client.

Agreed that they should be included in the vanilla client. But since they aren't, it seems like a very unfair advantage.

[mulamishne]

Having a custom client to flatten land to make running (in mountains) a gazillion timers easier should be instant ban.

Running in a mountain should be made easier, I agree, but the difficulty shouldn't be because visuals are fucking terrible, but for mechanical reasons. This seems kinda silly.
Didn't ardclient have flat world?

I would be surprised if some private clients don't have more advantages concerning running (auto running on specific terrain or whatever) or PVP in general.

I know that every client I've used (and I've used a few from major pvp devs) have only one relevant thing for running and that's drinking keybind (which I think is available on public clients) and movable stam bars.

[DoctorCookie]

Try having a discussion and listening to others instead of waving fingers at people and you'll find that a good portion of the people you dislike for the way they engage with the game are actually reasonable people.

Show me one single thread where there is disagreement and that word is not thrown around, or worse, and I will concede your point. Where is this "good portion" of reasonable people that you speak of? Are they on these forums? What about the HnH discord? Any new player is going to get first impressions likely from those two sources. Do you feel like "reasonable" is how the average person would rate discussions from those sources? This is a circular argument. Similar to "why does noone asks how to fight?" "Ok please tell me how to fight, I am ready to listen." "Nope, I dont share my tips with plebs/losers/retards." I do not dislike you, I dont know you. I have no idea how it would be if we met in game and am not making a personal judgement. I read through threads like this, because I love the game, and do not like what I see in terms of the way people talk to each other. If that makes me corny so be it.

[VDZ]

- Having a drink keybind like many clients do on default client is to me an obvious feature that belongs in the game, instead of having to browse through your inventory for 20 seconds looking for a waterskin mid-combat.

You can assign the waterskin to your hotbar, actually, and it works fine (in slots 6-0) other than that it runs out after 3 liters and you do need to manually refill it. But again, having to drink over 3 liters of water during combat is dumb.

[strpk0]

In the past. Indeed. We do not all have the luxury to have custom clients that are being maintained and operational during the whole world cycle.
Gaining an advantage over another player in PvP by using custom clients that are only available to a small group should be pretty much a nono in my book indeed.

I hope you realize that's not how open-source software works, and that enforcing these types of rules is impossible, nor anything that the devs have shown any sort of interest in doing.
If you're actually worried about people having exclusive access to features (within reason), then I'd argue that you should instead ask the devs to continue improving default client. Some people sadly still spam the forums with the opinion that improving default client is a "waste of time" and "custom clients will fix everything".

Public custom clients have largely died out due to the huge unpaid amount of work that maintaining them involves, also some less than thankful people making it a literal hell for them. It's only natural that if you spend weeks of effort into improving the game for you and your friends that you wouldn't want to share it with everyone (because again, why should people do unpaid work, and also have to run tech support for people they don't even know?)

[Vraatjuh]

In the past. Indeed. We do not all have the luxury to have custom clients that are being maintained and operational during the whole world cycle.
Gaining an advantage over another player in PvP by using custom clients that are only available to a small group should be pretty much a nono in my book indeed.

I hope you realize that's not how open-source software works, and that enforcing these types of rules is impossible, nor anything that the devs have shown any sort of interest in doing.
If you're actually worried about people having exclusive access to features (within reason), then I'd argue that you should instead ask the devs to continue improving default client. Some people sadly still spam the forums with the opinion that improving default client is a "waste of time" and "custom clients will fix everything".

Public custom clients have largely died out due to the huge unpaid amount of work that maintaining them involves, also some less than thankful people making it a literal hell for them. It's only natural that if you spend weeks of effort into improving the game for you and your friends that you wouldn't want to share it with everyone (because again, why should people do unpaid work, and also have to run tech support for people they don't even know?)

Oh, you are absolutely right. The problem lies 90% with Jorb & Loftar for not being able to bring us a proper client to play the game with in the first place. That does not mean that using custom clients to gain advantages in PvP against noobs is suddenly fair play.