Steelmaking Discussion

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Steelmaking Discussion

Postby Duane » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:00 am

Upon writing this thread as a post in C&I, I figured I'd rather have a discussion than discuss my idea specifically, but I will post my idea. If this belongs in Suggestions, just move it. ;)

There's been a lot of discussion on this between devs and players on various annoucement threads about how steelmaking is probably the worst element of the game right now because good steel takes just as long to make as bad steel and both of those processes are 60 hours long. Steel's a big spike, so I get people not wanting to print it out. It's used in pretty much everything 'Endgame' about the game right now, from brick wall gates to swords and armor.

Quality is never an issue with steel, nor is it very variable - somebody with the materials to make high quality steel will always be able to do so. The hardest thing to get past a certain point pertaining to quality are the bricks, which I'm sure nobody has complained about in regards to scarcity.

Quantity is never an issue either. Between hermits being able to continually fire several crucibles or villages being able to fuel dozens, it seems like the biggest problem with steel is that people sometimes overproduce and simply can't fuel all their crucibles. Given the materials, this is the only thing that can go wrong, and few ever let it.

Even Jorb has said:

jorb wrote:I have said this before: I am not in love with time being the problem with steel, but feel free to present some alternative mechanic that makes it mildly challenging to make in some more interesting way, then.


So I think we should have a little talk about what people think should change about steelmaking. I have my own ideas, but certainly everyone has their own.

I am of the opinion that right now, Steel just doesn't require enough materials. If you've found iron, you can make steel given the time, but the time is annoying. No hermit will alter their sleep schedule to get steel if they don't have an outward use for it - especially this world where palibashing by hand isn't possible, and a wooden palisade is plenty if you don't piss anyone off. But villages are able to endlessly print a sheerly staggering supply just in case. Wrought iron by itself has no use if you have bronze, and every village does. So do Most of the solo players.

So here's my idea.
Image

One bar of steel is made at a time. I immediately threw out the idea of steel needing to be limited because right now the only factor limiting steel in any way is time. So far in the world only 24 start-to-end batches of steel could have been made if someone had a crucible up day one, and that's pants-on-head retarded.

The Carbon bar would be fueled by a mixture of water/oil - maybe linseed, tar, or some new thing - and one of three different rocks. Dolomite, Limestone or Marble ala Dwarf Fortress would all work. Hermits would finally be rewarded for going to lower layers as higher quality stone would be available, and farming would finally tie into steelmaking in a meaningful way besides treefarming, both rewarding villages with both types of craftsman, and the every-skill hermit. This bar would constantly drain as often as normal ticks of fuel do. If the Carbon bar hits the bottom or top, the wrought iron turns back into cast iron and the process has to be restarted.

The Heat bar is simply a result of the fuel bar. It would tick up constantly and require dousing with another mixture or quenching oil, preferably something to tie farming in again. If the bar hits the top, the wrought iron would be reduced to slag, and the process would have to be restarted. If the heat bar is overquenched, the fire goes out and the process has to be restarted.

The fuel bar is basically unchanged. I'd suggest the steel crucible be given a 'Put Out' option with the addition of this system. To start a steel crucible it must have at least 10% of its carbon bar and any amount of fuel. The heat bar would take half an hour roughly to reach its sweetspot.

As long as both Carbon and Heat are kept in their sweetspot, One bar of Steel would be done in four hours. Four and change, given the heat bar needs to get up to heat, but future loads could be churned out sequentially in four hour intervals given the fuel, carbon, and quencher were all maintained.

If either bar is in a sour spot without breaking, the process becomes 8 hours and the steel takes a slight quality hit.
If both bars are in sour spots without breaking, the process becomes 12 hours and the steel takes a huge quality hit.

The system would be extremely active, unite farmers/smiths in a way other than treefarming for fuel, and make it so that more resources went to steelmaking than just wrought iron and coal. villages could churn out as much as they wanted, hermits could churn out as much as they needed, and time would no longer be an issue.

Anyone have an alternative idea that makes steelmaking more active, or even take less time without kneecapping anyone?
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Re: Steelmaking Discussion

Postby synaris » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:31 am

so instead of waiting 3 days for steel, you have to watch it like a hawk for four hours straight or suffer penalties?

fuck no. id rather keep the system we have. steel becomes annoying in a different way that still screws over many people. specificly people that dont have that much time to play.
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Re: Steelmaking Discussion

Postby Duane » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:34 am

synaris wrote:so instead of waiting 3 days for steel, you have to watch it like a hawk for four hours straight or suffer penalties?

fuck no. id rather keep the system we have. steel becomes annoying in a different way that still screws over many people. specificly people that dont have that much time to play.

If people don't have much time to play making them pop on once every eleven hours is just as hurtful as making them check it eight times in four hours. It's not like people with no time to play would even need steel - they rarely play that long.
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Re: Steelmaking Discussion

Postby Fierce_Deity » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:32 am

Skimmed your idea here for steel. Its not terrible. I'll give my thoughts on possibly resolving the issue of time with steel, or the complaint that people without enough time to make it can't. Some people can't be on for 4 hours straight, while some can't get on every 12 hours to refill the current steel crucibles. So why not implement two methods of steel making? One quicker method that requires more attention and work in the short run to get some steel. If it were to be made in a box, i would say this quick method should only yield 1 steel from a quick run. This would work well for people who get on once during the day for awhile, while the other method can stay in place along side it.
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Re: Steelmaking Discussion

Postby Vigilance » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:41 am

Just keep steel the way it is. I don't see why people have such a problem with it, other than because it isn't accessible to casuals and you have to buy it if you can't make it, which is suuuuuch a bad thing.
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Re: Steelmaking Discussion

Postby Duane » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:44 am

Vigilance wrote:Just keep steel the way it is. I don't see why people have such a problem with it, other than because it isn't accessible to casuals and you have to buy it if you can't make it, which is suuuuuch a bad thing.

In a game where tradeganking is a thing, most people won't trade for steel. I was offered and I declined. Mostly because the traders were all visibly armed.

People have a problem with it because

Duane wrote:So far in the world only 24 start-to-end batches of steel could have been made if someone had a crucible up day one, and that's pants-on-head retarded.


Nobody has that kind of time. Nobody enjoys watching something simmer for that long. Time shouldn't be a limiting factor on something as useful as steel. It's a brick wall of time.
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Re: Steelmaking Discussion

Postby Vigilance » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:47 am

Just make bigger batches than 2-4 bars.

I run 56 steel crucibles per cycle. Easy for a small town. :roll:
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Re: Steelmaking Discussion

Postby Duane » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:50 am

Vigilance wrote:Just make bigger batches than 2-4 bars.

I run 56 steel crucibles per cycle. Easy for a small town. :roll:


Duane wrote:Quality is never an issue with steel

Quantity is never an issue either. It seems like the biggest problem with steel is that people sometimes overproduce and simply can't fuel all their crucibles. Given the materials, this is the only thing that can go wrong, and few ever let it.

I am of the opinion that right now, Steel just doesn't require enough materials. If you've found iron, you can make steel given the time, but the time is annoying. No hermit will alter their sleep schedule to get steel if they don't have an outward use for it - especially this world where palibashing by hand isn't possible, and a wooden palisade is plenty if you don't piss anyone off. But villages are able to endlessly print a sheerly staggering supply just in case.


Yeah, so why not change the steelmaking process so that people besides villages don't get pissed off at making steel? You'd have even more steel with my process by factors if you're able to keep that many crucibles going. So why do you care?
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Re: Steelmaking Discussion

Postby Vigilance » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:51 am

Because I hate people having nice things if they don't put in the effort to make them. :roll:
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Re: Steelmaking Discussion

Postby synaris » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:54 am

Vigilance wrote:Because I hate people having nice things if they don't put in the effort to make them. :roll:


have to agree with this. although to be fair, time spent waiting doesnt quite count as effort to me.id be happy with steelboxes that simply hold more fuel. make em take up more space even. 2x2 on the map.
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