What is trolling anyway?

[ArvinJA]

sorry but if sincerely defending your beliefs is clearly and easily distinguishable from trolling then your beliefs are basic

A trend for the forum this last year has been to remove or Hel content considered to be "trolling", when there's no clear standard for what trolling even is. Haven & Hearth is a niche permadeath MMO and so attracts a lot of weird people, with weird views. In fact, if the developers of the game would be more famous than they are, they'd probably get in trouble for the views they've espoused on here (i.e. it's not clear for outsiders whether or not J&L actually hold the views that they espouse, as they seem ridiculous to the mainstream).

I suggest that we stop presuming that people who hold views that seem weird to us are trolling, and instead try to understand where those people are coming from. So instead of being quick to remove posts or Hel them, the mods could try to give more room for expanding on things. This is not merely a gripe with moderation though (hence why it's not going into the moderation thread), but a general gripe with the community (and its tone), and I really wish that people would think twice about assuming someone's troll status (e.g. by not clicking "report" when someone happens to disagree with you).

Even if someone has been known for trolling previously, please don't be so quick to judge until you've given them room to expand on their points.

[Ysh]

sorry but if sincerely defending your beliefs is clearly and easily distinguishable from trolling then your beliefs are basic

A trend for the forum this last year has been to remove or Hel content considered to be "trolling", when there's no clear standard for what trolling even is. Haven & Hearth is a niche permadeath MMO and so attracts a lot of weird people, with weird views. In fact, if the developers of the game would be more famous than they are, they'd probably get in trouble for the views they've espoused on here (i.e. it's not clear for outsiders whether or not J&L actually hold the views that they espouse, as they seem ridiculous to the mainstream).

I suggest that we stop presuming that people who hold views that seem weird to us are trolling, and instead try to understand where those people are coming from. So instead of being quick to remove posts or Hel them, the mods could try to give more room for expanding on things. This is not merely a gripe with moderation though (hence why it's not going into the moderation thread), but a general gripe with the community (and its tone), and I really wish that people would think twice about assuming someone's troll status (e.g. by not clicking "report" when someone happens to disagree with you).

Even if someone has been known for trolling previously, please don't be so quick to judge until you've given them room to expand on their points.

I think trolling to the men is define as ''some thing I disagree with and do not like.''

[wilkesbooth]

A trend for the forum this last year has been to remove or Hel content considered to be "trolling", when there's no clear standard for what trolling even is.

It's been proven time and time again it's whatever the mods disagree with.

[Bowshot125]

Time for a revolution.

[Burinn]

I had a thread about suicide awareness labeled "trolling" and Heled just today.

[loftar]

Do you have any particularly good example of a post that you consider hastily or prematurely Hel'd?

[Burinn]

Do you have any particularly good example of a post that you consider hastily or prematurely Hel'd?

Haven & Hearth Mental Health

Instead of removing the problem posts, the entire thread was Hel'd and I was accused of trying to cause problems.

[MagicManICT]

Do you have any particularly good example of a post that you consider hastily or prematurely Hel'd?

Haven & Hearth Mental Health

Instead of removing the problem posts, the entire thread was Hel'd and I was accused of trying to cause problems.

No idea why that was Hel'd, either, burinn. Let me check the mod logs and get back to you. Looks legit enough, more so than a lot of the crap we get posted here in the Inn*.

To answer the above poster and Arvin: trolling is anyone intentionally trying to inflame or aggravate a situation. It could be by using bravado, falsehoods, or any of a variety of other social tools. Yeah, it's a forum about a game that incites much drama. We should be a bit more laid back in how we deal with some of these trolls as it is a part of the game. There is also a point at which it goes too far. Where's that line? Isn't the game harsh enough without people piling on the grief?

Maybe we should make a call for more sportsmanlike conduct around here. If you defeat your opponent, then let the world know. There isn't a news service around here other than the players themselves. Leave out the taunts and jeers, though. I'm just one of the mods and we all have to answer to jorb and loftar.

*edit: ok, checked the logs. I'll message the person that removed it as I can't just overrule the boss. It may be that the subject is just too far off base for the forums.

[Fratari]

Honestly, I think the mods have been extraordinarily lenient on people trolling and shitposting. The forum has become a very hostile environment in all the wrong ways. I don't think I've seen a thread go for more than a page without being derailed, trolled, shitposted in, or one of the posters being harassed by people who add nothing to the conversation but pictures and shouts of dis dogs. It's always the same people, and severely discourages new people from getting involved in both the forum and the game. There are plenty of opportunities for good hostile dialog. Kill your enemies. Burn their stuff. Post pictures, make it good.

I digress. More towards the topic: The mods haven't been sending threads to hel because they express 'weird views'. Mostly they remove posts that have derailed the thread. Stuff that doesn't relate to the original topic, and just causes strife between the posters. Or topics that are clearly meant only to attack and inflame sections of the community outside the realm of the game.

Hmm, I think i just rephrased what MagicMan said.

[Burinn]

Honestly, I think the mods have been extraordinarily lenient on people trolling and shitposting. The forum has become a very hostile environment in all the wrong ways. I don't think I've seen a thread go for more than a page without being derailed, trolled, shitposted in, or one of the posters being harassed by people who add nothing to the conversation but pictures and shouts of dis dogs. It's always the same people, and severely discourages new people from getting involved in both the forum and the game. There are plenty of opportunities for good hostile dialog. Kill your enemies. Burn their stuff. Post pictures, make it good.

I digress. More towards the topic: The mods haven't been sending threads to hel because they express 'weird views'. Mostly they remove posts that have derailed the thread. Stuff that doesn't relate to the original topic, and just causes strife between the posters. Or topics that are clearly meant only to attack and inflame sections of the community outside the realm of the game.

Hmm, I think i just rephrased what MagicMan said.

I'd generally agree with you, however it's been a fact of life that containment threads in the Moot work. It's objectively better to have people arguing back and forth with each other about silly politics in one place.