The Science Delusion - Rupert Sheldrake

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The Science Delusion - Rupert Sheldrake

Postby sMartins » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:48 pm

It's a video, almost 20 minutes, so sit down and relax if you'd like to watch it: Banned TED Talk: The Science Delusion - Rupert Sheldrake at TEDx Whitechapel


Finally I've found something "different" in English language that can show you things in an uncommon way,
Tho, if you want to hear my opinion, I'm not totally agree with him, cause he's supposing that science, soon or later, would be able to take into consideration stuff that is not rational, and that, to me, is impossible by definition, it's not possible to rationalize the irrational, otherwise would not be irrational anymore and viceversa.
But still very interesting thoughts.

EDIT: oh also to take note about that it was even banned, we can discuss about that also :D ...
Last edited by sMartins on Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Science Delusion - Rupert Sheldrake

Postby Jalpha » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:50 am

I believe in science, math I am not so sure about. However I feel it is the greatest folly of our species to teach the youth of today that we know everything. Some foundational priciples upon which our education is built are very shaky and incomplete.

Still, when I tell people that animals and I can communicate (as an example) many of them become very upset. How can food talk to you. Animals aren't even sentient. Then they write me off as the worst kind of weirdo and move on with their materialistic and disconnected lifestyles which seem utterly devoid of meaning or discovery to me.

I wouldn't say I believe in magic, but I believe there is a whole bunch of layers to reality and we can only percieve a fraction of what is really around us. As an example I believe that there is an infinite number of universes superimposed on top of each other but out of phase with each other. I find it highly probable that these alternat timelines can interact.

It is much easier to believe what we are told is reality by the hivemind of our species. To reject those beliefs is to disconnect from the hivemind and that can be a very lonely path to tread.

Banned is probably just a hype word so this guy can sell more copies of his book.
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Re: The Science Delusion - Rupert Sheldrake

Postby Zentetsuken » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:16 pm

Jalpha wrote:I believe in science, math I am not so sure about.


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Re: The Science Delusion - Rupert Sheldrake

Postby sMartins » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:22 pm

Jalpha wrote:I believe in science, math I am not so sure about. However I feel it is the greatest folly of our species to teach the youth of today that we know everything. Some foundational priciples upon which our education is built are very shaky and incomplete.

Still, when I tell people that animals and I can communicate (as an example) many of them become very upset. How can food talk to you. Animals aren't even sentient. Then they write me off as the worst kind of weirdo and move on with their materialistic and disconnected lifestyles which seem utterly devoid of meaning or discovery to me.

I wouldn't say I believe in magic, but I believe there is a whole bunch of layers to reality and we can only percieve a fraction of what is really around us. As an example I believe that there is an infinite number of universes superimposed on top of each other but out of phase with each other. I find it highly probable that these alternat timelines can interact.

It is much easier to believe what we are told is reality by the hivemind of our species. To reject those beliefs is to disconnect from the hivemind and that can be a very lonely path to tread.

Banned is probably just a hype word so this guy can sell more copies of his book.


I'm agree with his speech at 50%, totally agree with him that science is not all the reality, but just a part, and that science as a worldwide view is not a wise choice, also potentially very dangerous.
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Re: The Science Delusion - Rupert Sheldrake

Postby Oddity » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:37 pm

Jalpha wrote:How can food talk to you

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Re: The Science Delusion - Rupert Sheldrake

Postby Potjeh » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:40 pm

If there is any objective truth in the Universe, it's in math.
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Re: The Science Delusion - Rupert Sheldrake

Postby Alitis » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:10 pm

Potjeh wrote:If there is any objective truth in the Universe, it's in math.


Oh come on... maths is just proven, indisputable facts, you can't possibly BELIEVE in them, could you ? :mrgreen: ¦]
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Re: The Science Delusion - Rupert Sheldrake

Postby sMartins » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:25 pm

Potjeh wrote:If there is any objective truth in the Universe, it's in math.

It depends, based on what you mean with "objective truth", math is not true at least as far as any human invention, math is not true, math works ... very different concepts.
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Re: The Science Delusion - Rupert Sheldrake

Postby Trappin » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:51 am

Did Rupert Sheldrake name check Terence McKenna?

https://archive.org/details/TerenceMckennaWithArtBell

Terence McKenna with Art Bell, May 22nd 1997

*AB:* You have a theory about time. Time is one of my favorite all-time topics, so before we
launch into what you think about time, tell me what you think time is. In other words, is time our
invention, or is time a real thing ... I realize we're measuring it, but in the cosmic scheme of
things, is there really time?

*TM:* Yeah, you give me a perfect entree to launch into this thing. See, in the west we have
inherited from Newton what is called the idea of pure duration, which is simply that time is sort
of a place where things are placed so that they don't all happen at once; in other words, it's used
as quality-less, it's an abstraction. In fact, I think when we carry out a complete analysis of time, I
think what we're going to discover is that like matter, time is composed of elemental, discrete
types. All matter, organic and inorganic matter, is composed of 104, 108 elements ... there's some
argument. Time, on the other hand, is thought to be this featureless, qualityless medium, but as
we experience it, as living feeling creatures, time has qualities. There are times when everything
seems to go right, and times when everything seems to go wrong ...

*AB:* That's absolutely true. I've wondered about that all my life. There are time when, in effect,
you can do no wrong, and there are other periods of time when you can do no right, no matter
what you do.

*TM:* Well, so in looking at this, I created a vocabulary ... actually I borrowed it from Alfred
North Whitehead ... but I think I'm on to something which science has missed, and it's this; it's
that the universe, or human life or an empire or an ecosystem, any large scale or small scale
process, can be looked at as a dynamic struggle between two qualities which I call habit and
novelty. And I think they're pretty self explanatory. Habit is simply repetition of established
patterns, conservation, holding back what has already been achieved into a system, and novelty is
the chance-taking, the exploratory, the new, the never-before-seen.

And these two qualities--habit and novelty--are locked in all situations in a kind of struggle. But
the good news is that if you look at large scales of time, novelty is winning, and this is the point
that I have been so concerned to make that I think science has overlooked. If you look back
through the history of the human race, or life on this planet, or of the solar system and the galaxy,
as you go backward in time, things become more simple, more basic. So turning that on its head,
we can say that as you come towards the present things become more novel, more complex.

So I've taken this as a universal law, affecting historical processes, biological processes and
astrophysical processes. Nature produces and conserves novelty, and what I mean by that, as the
universe cools the original cloud of electron plasma, eventually atomic systems form, as it further
cools molecular systems, then long-chain polymers, then non-nucleated primitive DNAcontaining
life, later complex life, multi-cellular life, and this is a principle that reaches right up
to our dear selves. And notice, Art, it's working across all scales of being. This is something that
is as true of human societies as it is of termite populations or populations of atoms in a chemical
system. Nature conserves, prefers novelty. And the interesting thing about an idea like this is that
it stands the existentialism of modern philosophy on its head ... you know, what modern, atheistic
existentialism says is that we're a cosmic accident and damn lucky to be here, and any meaning
you get out of the situation, you're simply conferring. I say, no ... by looking deeply into the
structure of nature, we can discover that novelty is what nature produces and conserves, and if
that represents a universal value system, then the human world that we find today with our
technologies and our complex societies represents the greatest novelty so far achieved, and
suddenly you have a basis for an ethic--that which advances novelty is good, that which retards it
is to be looked at very carefully.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna

I'm pretty tired of hearing about the old 1960's LSD dropping California gray-haired hippy caste. New ageism bootstrapped to Buddhism, frying on acid and backpacking in Tibet. Rupert Sheldrake makes some fair points. He's smart enough to dress the old McKenna stuff in Tech Clothing - because tie-dyed shirts give away the game.

Groove on this, hepcats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjxSCAalsBE
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Re: The Science Delusion - Rupert Sheldrake

Postby sMartins » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:31 am

Yeah I don't know about those guys, my point was more about showing a "different view" of reality ... mainly how science is just a part of it, and not the entirety.
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