Acording to this video Hafen should be on the right track?

[Try∞]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRlTVvb-PmI
a video about different types of business models that MMORPG use and states at the end that subcription model is the best for mmorpg and some cosmetics too.
http://www.havenandhearth.com/portal/store
So looking at haven and hearth 2 store Hafen should be booming as MMORPG, but yet somehow it still fails.
Could it be that permant death is no longer a thing or sandbox mmorpgs are outdated or is it really the graphics that put people off or the ovious one the grind?
Let's chat and discuss away

[DDDsDD999]

Payment model isn't all that determines a MMO's success. There's a lot of things wrong with haven.

[wonder-ass]

lack of an endgame and no balance in game mechanics. 10/10 idea, 5/10 execution

[azrid]

The business model is fine.

This is whats wrong with the game:
Endgame is infinite grind in stead of pvp.
Forced to use bots to participate.
Ugly character face and lumpy body(not a joke).
Lacks custom building as you would expect these days from this type of game.
And most importantly the lag.
I guess once these get fixed even then it wont suddenly make a huge wave in the mmo market since haven relies on word of mouth to spread in stead of using distribution methods available today.

[MagicManICT]

I guess once these get fixed even then it wont suddenly make a huge wave in the mmo market since haven relies on word of mouth to spread in stead of using distribution methods available today.

Won't help. I point to about 25k games on Steam you've never even heard of... or won't remember if you had because of the massive number of games from small indie developers on Steam. I just read an article on gamasutra.com where the dev said he was happy that he sold over 1000 units, 3/4 of which I think were "pity buys" because of an earlier blog he had posted. From what I read in reviews, it was a solid game, just one that was so easy to overlook because it wasn't AAA quality and heavily advertised.

Ugly character face and lumpy body(not a joke).

I can think of a few modern games that don't have a "fine art" aesthetic that do well.

Lacks custom building as you would expect these days from this type of game.

I'm sorry, which MMO allows you to do this? I haven't played all of them from the last 10 years, but the ONLY MMOs I have played that allows you to do this came out about 15 years ago (A Tale in the Desert, Wurm).

[Potjeh]

lack of an endgame and no balance in game mechanics. 10/10 idea, 5/10 execution

this

Endgame is infinite grind in stead of pvp.
Forced to use bots to participate.

and this

[azrid]

I'm sorry, which MMO allows you to do this? I haven't played all of them from the last 10 years, but the ONLY MMOs I have played that allows you to do this came out about 15 years ago (A Tale in the Desert, Wurm).

maplestory 2
trove
wildstar(rip)
LOTRO
minecraft
life is feudal
rust
conan exiles
dont starve
When I said "this type of game" I did not mean mmo only. Custom housing/free building to various degrees is very common in mmos too though.

I can think of a few modern games that don't have a "fine art" aesthetic that do well.

I think jorb has the skills to make better looking character models. Just because some games carry their bad art with gameplay doesn't mean haven should be like that. Haven in general looks good though but when you look at the character model it makes me physically cringe. The character is the most important thing to get right because its a big part of the first impression.

[MagicManICT]

When I said "this type of game" I did not mean mmo only. Custom housing/free building to various degrees is very common in mmos too though.

You can't really compare apples to oranges, though. You can do a lot of things with single or small multi-player games that you can't do with MMOs due to space limitations. It's because of those space limitations that MMOs started going to instancing for dungeons, housing, and all that. Once you do that, it's just another reason you can't compare it to Haven or similar games. Every game you mention, or could mention, fits under one of these statements with the exception of Life is Fuedal.

Also, I've played games with modular design since the mid 90s, I think it was (maybe late 90s). Ultima Online had it, and it wasn't new at that time.

I think jorb has the skills to make better looking character models.

I'm sure he does. I think it was a choice to design them this way. Look at the female model compared to the male. It reminds me of the old troll or ogre models from the early, early days of EQ.

[sMartins]

yeah consistence .... if you make just 1 single object very well then you have to do everything else very well.

LazyPeon ... eheh

[azrid]

Alright Mr Good and Mr Enough.