What is the closest thing to H&H that actually has people?

[Tamalak]

H&H is grand but the way the population keeps collapsing is discouraging and the developers don't seem to have advertisements or newbie-streamlining as a priority so I don't expect it to pick up. Is there any game out there with a sizeable population that is:

-Single shard MMO
-Strong player control over the world
-Harsh consequences for failure
-PvP that includes said harsh consequences

Only ones I know of is EVE and Rust, any others??

[Jalpha]

You could take a look at Wurm Online. It has been many years since last I played it though and even then many game mechanics were dated. Arguably it fits many of your listed requirements though not all.

Most other games within the genre collapse entirely and despite its failings it is a testiment to the devs, the community and the game that Hafen is still around at all.

Xsyon and Life is Feudal among them.

Funding is the primary developmental hurdle. The only attempt made by industry to enter the genre of which I am aware was Salem.

[shubla]

You could take a look at Wurm Online.

Wurm is a good option if you want even more tedium.

[Tamalak]

You could take a look at Wurm Online.

Wurm is a good option if you want even more tedium.

There's a game with even more tedium than H&H? I'm skeptical but hopeful.

[Tamalak]

Looks like Wurm Online is peaking at about 300 people though.. hardly better than Haven.

[BoxingRock]

H&H is grand but the way the population keeps collapsing is discouraging and the developers don't seem to have advertisements or newbie-streamlining as a priority so I don't expect it to pick up. Is there any game out there with a sizeable population that is:

-Single shard MMO
-Strong player control over the world
-Harsh consequences for failure
-PvP that includes said harsh consequences

Only ones I know of is EVE and Rust, any others??

Every popular MMO has its merits, but nothing fits all of that criteria, including haven.

If there was an exact copy alternative to haven with devs who cared more this game would have scrapped years ago because it wouldn't be able to compete.

Lots of MMOs have higher population with way higher degree of new player accessibility, lots of MMOs have a player controlled world to some extent, lots of MMOs have full loot PVP, and lots of non-MMOs have all these things too

We've all done the search, we've all found other good games, most of us have surely tried dozens and dozens of them.

IMO most people stay here for the community, and you wont find that community here on the forum.
Over all, almost every vet who sticks around here does not consider haven to be their "main game"

you just gotta find other shit you like

[iamahh]

haven's equilibrium is achieved with low population

the last thing you want is neighbours hunting and mining around you

so you probably won't find a game like that

[vatas]

You could take a look at Wurm Online. It has been many years since last I played it though and even then many game mechanics were dated. Arguably it fits many of your listed requirements though not all.

Most other games within the genre collapse entirely and despite its failings it is a testiment to the devs, the community and the game that Hafen is still around at all.

Xsyon and Life is Feudal among them.

Funding is the primary developmental hurdle. The only attempt made by industry to enter the genre of which I am aware was Salem.

Life is Feudal seems to be shutting down due to publisher Xsolla not paying the developers.

This video claims to have insider knowledge on the matter.

You may want to be aware that Xsolla is "an authorized global distributor of Haven & Hearth" but in order to not start fear-mongering, Xsolla is just an alternative payment processor. Life is Feudal devs had a proper publishing deal with them.

Why not just use PayPal? I'm under impression that in some places you use cash to buy Xsolla card from physical store and use it to buy stuff in Xsolla supported webstores. Apparently a sizeable (or at least vocal) part of HnH playerbase could only spend money on the game this way, and Xsolla support was one of the first "In the Pipe" -regulars.

[shubla]

There's a game with even more tedium than H&H? I'm skeptical but hopeful.

Absolutely. Mining and terraforming take maybe 100x more time than in HnH.
Building a rowboat (the smallest and simplest) requires maybe 20-60 hours of work, depending on how skillful your character is etc.

[linkfanpc]

Wurm Online is decent but P2W. Wurm Unlimited is on Steam for 20 bucks and is basically Wurm Online but in singleplayer/local servers and doesn't have any P2W features, but they've since dropped support for that game.

Salem's dead now.

Not much unfortunately. As people have said time and time again, this game is extremely niche. There's just not much of anything quite like it.