please convince me not to start playing again

[VDZ]

Hmm I don't know. I asked what makes those activities more fun, not whether there is a greater amount of them to do. There could be a hundred more "tasks" in H&H compared to something else but that does not make them fun tasks to perform. Not sure if you have played Runescape in awhile (or ever), but the amount of content that has been added to that game over the years is quite astounding to me. Albeit you have to be a member to be able to participate in a large portion of it, but still there are a huge amount of activities to do in that game and arguably it is far more than Haven.

But do they all feel like you're meaningfully progressing in the game, and are they sufficiently substantially different? It's not uncommon for MMOs to provide many 'activities', but either the reward is always the same (typically you just get some XP/gold, not any meaningful upgrade), or the activities are practically the same ('slay 5 bats' vs 'slay 10 goblins'), or, commonly, both. In Haven activities are clearly differentiated in both gameplay and reward, with the reward often being some permanent upgrade that will continue to benefit you for some time.

[wolf1000wolf]

We've derailed the original topic but for me... the crux lies in the mental/attitude of wanting to progress in the game and not feeling like I just have a huge list of to-do chores.

As as hermit/casual who has other irl obligations, I just have to accept that being "optimal" is impossible and enjoy HnH at a slow(er) pace.

[Kaios]

But do they all feel like you're meaningfully progressing in the game, and are they sufficiently substantially different? It's not uncommon for MMOs to provide many 'activities', but either the reward is always the same (typically you just get some XP/gold, not any meaningful upgrade), or the activities are practically the same ('slay 5 bats' vs 'slay 10 goblins'), or, commonly, both. In Haven activities are clearly differentiated in both gameplay and reward, with the reward often being some permanent upgrade that will continue to benefit you for some time.

Not all of them, and not all the time, but I don’t see how that is the case for Haven either. You can’t seriously be saying you enjoy a task such as craft a thing or deliver this fish more than any other game because those tasks are just as arbitrary and boring as slay x mob. What are the permanent upgrades you mean? Plenty of games have rewards with permanence.

We've derailed the original topic but for me... the crux lies in the mental/attitude of wanting to progress in the game and not feeling like I just have a huge list of to-do chores.

As as hermit/casual who has other irl obligations, I just have to accept that being "optimal" is impossible and enjoy HnH at a slow(er) pace.

Sure, but wouldn’t it be rather nice if you could leave the walls of your village with the knowledge that there aren’t titans out there with 4x your stats and way ahead in quality that will easily mess you up should you run in to them. Or maybe that feeling of constant risk and knowing that you will never be able to survive an encounter when you are too far from safety is enjoyable to someone which is fine, but then why do so many players quit after losing their main character if that’s the case? Just doesn’t make sense to me, do players want a permadeath game they can all effectively participate in or do they like getting killed by players that might as well be NPCs themselves?

[terechgracz]

Play it. Its fun for 2 weeks, later you can drop.

[Zampfeo]

But do they all feel like you're meaningfully progressing in the game, and are they sufficiently substantially different? It's not uncommon for MMOs to provide many 'activities', but either the reward is always the same (typically you just get some XP/gold, not any meaningful upgrade), or the activities are practically the same ('slay 5 bats' vs 'slay 10 goblins'), or, commonly, both. In Haven activities are clearly differentiated in both gameplay and reward, with the reward often being some permanent upgrade that will continue to benefit you for some time.

Based on the generic MMO examples you gave, I'm assuming you aren't too familiar with Runescape. It's its own thing where the meat of the game is progression and accomplishing goals within the various activities it offers. It's surprisingly similar to Haven in that regard and probably why a lot of Haven players switch to Runescape when the world is dying. One thing Runescape does better in my opinion is having more intuitive progression paths whereas it can be overwhelming in Haven. For example, the new Coade clay. Players have to calculate if and when it's worth using 8+ different ingredients and buildings vs just using ball clay and I doubt Loftorb gave the gameplay implications much thought beyond adding a new pretty brick option. Runescape's way of doing things is having very clearly defined tiers of materials so players are stuck doing less homework and instead maximizing the dopamine they receive by progressing.

[MagicManICT]

Runescape's way of doing things is having very clearly defined tiers of materials so players are stuck doing less homework and instead maximizing the dopamine they receive by progressing.

Some of us get the dopamine from doing the homework, not from pretty flashing lights. maybe that's why I could never stand Runescape.

As far as the OP goes, yeah, best not to get into Haven again. You'll get addicted again, end up losing your job, and be destitute living out of a van hacking the neighborhood wi-fis that haven't updated their firmware properly so you can play Haven on a 10 year old laptop.

[wolf1000wolf]

Runescape's way of doing things is having very clearly defined tiers of materials so players are stuck doing less homework and instead maximizing the dopamine they receive by progressing.

Some of us get the dopamine from doing the homework, not from pretty flashing lights. maybe that's why I could never stand Runescape.

...

I'm also in the camp that prefers HnH's quirky multi variable progression system. XD

[azrid]

Just play a little bit.

[Vouss]

if you start playing again you will be a virgin forever

[Smoopadoop]

if you start playing again you will be a virgin forever

@jorb @loftar how did you program a game that can un-fuck someone HOW DID YOU DO IT