Are devs happy/okay/satisfied with the player numbers?

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Re: Are devs happy/okay/satisfied with the player numbers?

Postby Procne » Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:06 pm

Someone mentioned how there's no griefing in Wurm.

Which reminds me of viewtopic.php?f=40&t=44710

Griefing is perfectly possible in Wurm, just as the thread above states. The difference between Wurm and HnH, though, is that devs took an active stance against griefing and PvP on some servers, and while that required some policing from the GMs, the playerbase was rid of jerks, and being a jerk is frowned upon. Meanwhile in HnH jerks were accepted and in turn they scared away the so-called "normies" ^^
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Re: Are devs happy/okay/satisfied with the player numbers?

Postby WowGain » Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:15 pm

wolf1000wolf wrote:Here's a hot take.


You shoulda just left it at this

One big fat problem with all of this- in the void of not having any of these systems interacting with other players in a constant flux of antagonism and communal attitudes, the game loops mean literally nothing.

Everything in this game is about constantly trying to improve the numbers of the stuff you have and make in comparison to everyone else, and mastering them gives you the reward of having a significant skill gap over your competitors that you can use to leverage yourself over them.

Just as an example, why do I care in the slightest if my eating table is fully decked out with all the best symbel and loaded with the best food, all fed into it as the complex products of every single industry I have if I'm at no disadvantage against competitors by not trying to constantly push these things because they cannot impact me in any way I would want to prevent and vice versa

What you're asking for is fundamentally incompatible with the basic design principal of Haven and Hearth, and I gotta be honest if the principal which underlines your idea is the one you wish was in place, this might not be the game for you.
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Re: Are devs happy/okay/satisfied with the player numbers?

Postby Pommfritz » Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:58 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:
jordancoles wrote:And what was your CON/AGI/general combat experience vs theirs?


Full agi advantage, not sure of con 'cause I did like 700 chip into max cleave and they're for sure better than you vs. me who's mediocre at best

lol my offer stands to mrage fight you on a character with half ur stats. You can post a video of it if you want. Would be PRETTY INDITING evidence against your suggestion that only stats matter if u refuse


my stats were about 2.78k str, 1.45k agi and 1.5-2k con (don't wanna tell exact number).
Also, let's go again :D
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Re: Are devs happy/okay/satisfied with the player numbers?

Postby wonder-ass » Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:01 pm

stats/gear only matters to the 1% that can pvp the rest would get stomped regardless of even playing field. might do a pvp tutorial on how to run and what to watch out for but that depends if i cba.
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Re: Are devs happy/okay/satisfied with the player numbers?

Postby noindyfikator » Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:24 pm

For me the map is too big.
It's barely good for 1000 players online at the same time. But it's only for the first 2 weeks..
After 2-3 months there are 200-300 players online, trade is dead, integration with other people is dead. Game turns into single player survival/base building.

When I go out of my base I would like to meet 5-10 people each big square talking/hunting/foraging/trading.
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Re: Are devs happy/okay/satisfied with the player numbers?

Postby pawnchito » Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:35 pm

noindyfikator wrote:
For me the perfect solution would be timed worlds, like in Travian games or the Salem expeditions. World lasts several months, with the end game where the factions can fight for glory, and then a scheduled restart.


This + make something that people playing 3h a day still can be competitive to people playing 14h/day


I don't think this type of mindset is realistic or healthy gaming mentality. I mean come on you really think minimal effort / time spent would be recompensed the same as someone dedicating more to it?
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Re: Are devs happy/okay/satisfied with the player numbers?

Postby noindyfikator » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:03 pm

pawnchito wrote:
noindyfikator wrote:
For me the perfect solution would be timed worlds, like in Travian games or the Salem expeditions. World lasts several months, with the end game where the factions can fight for glory, and then a scheduled restart.


This + make something that people playing 3h a day still can be competitive to people playing 14h/day


I don't think this type of mindset is realistic or healthy gaming mentality. I mean come on you really think minimal effort / time spent would be recompensed the same as someone dedicating more to it?


Do you consider 3h a day in current days when 9/10 h&h player base work 8-16 and have other responsibilities is "minimal" effort? If someone can spend 14h a day, game should give him fun, he should play for fun, not for being titan stat, game should be enjoyable but it shouldn't mean you can 1v10 small hermit village with kito + cleave.

I can play league of legends for 30 min a day and still be competitive with other players, just main one champion.

Players playing 14h a day should have giga villages, a lot of resources, advanced trading, etc. But shouldn't be ahead in PvP, because then we will have every world for next X years same 20 people attending PvP. I am sure in current state we know real names of people doing meteorite PvP .. because over last couple of years, they are exactly the same grinders
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Re: Are devs happy/okay/satisfied with the player numbers?

Postby pawnchito » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:13 pm

I think you misunderstand. I am not putting a value on x amount of time, 3 hours is a ton of play time and probably a persons full entertainment time after real life responsibilities. I just mean games by their nature will always reward the people who spend more time. If you expect or want that to change it will only hurt your own experience by setting yourself up for bad times.

League of legends wouldn't really fit this argument because its not the same genre. I mean I can play a 45 minute Counterstrike Match a day and still be with the best / worst of them but that's not a fair comparison either.

This is more like Vanilla WoW raiding. Where you need to spend 14 hours gathering mats food buffs elixers flasks pots etc...
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Re: Are devs happy/okay/satisfied with the player numbers?

Postby noindyfikator » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:22 pm

well, I think the game should be rewarding in other aspects of the game if you play a lot, but not in PvP in a survival mmo with permadeath. It's only my opinion.

Considering vanilla wow. I was playing vanilla, 1 raid per week + 1-2h a day for gathering was enough for me to be in raid group and enjoy the game. It's not much time to be relevant
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W11 - The Friend Zone
W12 - KoA aka Kingdom of Ashes
W13 - Monke
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Re: Are devs happy/okay/satisfied with the player numbers?

Postby wolf1000wolf » Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:20 pm

WowGain wrote:
wolf1000wolf wrote:Here's a hot take.

...

Everything in this game is about constantly trying to improve the numbers of the stuff you have and make in comparison to everyone else, and mastering them gives you the reward of having a significant skill gap over your competitors that you can use to leverage yourself over them.
...


See, this is what's I'm questioning. Is that HnH and jorbtar's actual intention? Nowhere in HnH's About page is mindless number grinding to keep ahead of others mentioned nor pursued as the primary goal. Instead, we have goals of survival, construction and society building.

I think that player vs player conflict as a facet of the whole "mutable game world" has been too overly emphasized.

Sure, as per the treatise the devs posted years ago on how every action in HnH can be technically considered PvP since by taking up resources you're denying another player the same.... but given all the patches and content that the devs have pushed out that ISN'T PvP combat, the feeling is that PvP combat is an incongruous artifact of trying to allow players agency in their gameplay.

Maybe jorbtar should really sit down and ponder whether having direct PvP combat and siege is a necessity in their vision of the game. There ARE other alternatives that still allow for player conflict and resolution....

Edit- As an example, in the absence of direct PvP, the game loop can become one where players try to raise their stats to tackle difficult mobs/environments instead of being an endless arms race. Also, there would be more room for community projects like markets, public works, larping, etc.
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