two main types of players

[algam]

I have no idea how you would avoid getting 200 will over the course of a couple weeks but ok.

This gives me the impression that some people have automatized so much this game that they can no longer see behind it and think that their gameplay is the norm.
This cognitive bias make them think that everything shubla says is stupid, and of course from their point of view it really is.
But from my point of view things look much different. I do not know everything that shubla says and I do not agree with everything but:
- I am playing this world almost from beginning and I do not have a 200 will character. Not even 100
- If someone would siege my village, brickwall or not their success would be 100% guaranteed since I am alone. And if somebody does not understand why siege is 100% successfull against hermits like me please explain me again how can I defend when I do not even log in daily.

It seems to me that in this game there is a natural selection that eliminates pretty soon every player except two types, let's name them "snugglesnails" and "facebook mums"

1. "snugglesnails":

• invest hours everyday in the game
• have most of the chores automatized
• are gathered in villages with more than one player
• know a lot about how things work. Maybe not a good example but recently I discovered that I did not knew how fast a horse would wake up from beeing knocked out in a fight. I actually did not knew that when a bear attacks me the horse would fight and keep the bear around my knocked out body.
• grow very fast at the beginning of the world or in case of death
• because the automatization most of the satisfaction they get in the game comes from raiding. Might get also satisfaction from credos or exploration or some other things but a lot less and mostly at the start of the world

2. "facebook mums"

• do not invest many hours in the game
• have little to nothing automated, except for what is provided in clients like Ender
• are hermits
• do not know a lot of usefull things
• grow very slow
• get satisfaction mostly from playing a kind of farmville inside their palisade or brickwall if lucky

Any other type of player pretty soon either quits (rage quit or boredom quit) or converted to one of above two types.

1. Hermits that try to be more than a "facebook mum" will either:

• be alone in their area and basically be a "facebook mum" with a larger area of activity
• try to discover thingwalls and explore (and shit) and get killed by some "snugglesnails" and rage quit
• think about joining a village but will not do it because they already put a lot of effort in what they have done until then and will not throw all away just to join a bunch of strangers that might get rid of them anytime, and of course building houses from scratch and until now how the f... to travel to the location of that village that is recruiting on forum when you do not know even where are you on the map, or you did not discovered any thingwall at all, or you do not have a boat that can take you there

2. Hermits that successfully gather to form or join a village either:

• become "snugglesnails" if they automatize a lot of things (Who in the right mind would like to be the cook of a village?) and they do not have a little bit more powerfull "snugglesnails" village close
• become "facebook mums" because villagers rage quit after getting killed (to get back to where you were without automatization is hard as ... something very hard), get bored (many cooks), leave village because "somebody ate my gelatin" (I do not know what was that about but saw something on forum)

and at some point those "successfull" type of players (successfull from an evolutionary point of view, meaning keep on playing) quit also because:
1. who can be a "facebook mum" for a very long time?
2. what satisfaction can you have in the game if the only villages worth raiding are only a few, very far, might destroy you (being a bully is not funny anymore when the other can beat you) or a loooooot of coordination and luck, to have all players ready the same time, are needed to raid them

[wonder-ass]

- If someone would siege my village, brickwall or not their success would be 100% guaranteed since I am alone. And if somebody does not understand why siege is 100% successfull against hermits like me please explain me again how can I defend when I do not even log in daily.

why do you feel entitled to a base that cant be raided when u barely log in and don't know how the sieging mechanics work? didn't read the rest.

[Pommfritz]

Just stumbled upon this, I guess it got split off from the thread in announcements.

x

Since you quoted me I believe that you are putting me in one of those camps, which I think are bullshit to begin with and also what does Snail have to do with it xD
I have a bias that I have to think about carefully when I post things about progress but let me tell you first that probably most of the things you attribute to me are just wrong.
Those basically being your main points:
1) I don't play in a village, I play as a hermit.
2) I started playing 4 months ago and probably had similiar knowledge about the game like you, almost none. You can check my account creation date, that's when I was playing the game for 2 weeks the last time before this.
3) I have never used any external automation or scripts, I was asking someone once how to script/bot and got told to look at the hafen documentation or something, it took me 2 hours to figure out what that means and still didn't figure out where to find it (I appreciate help regarding this in case I feel like becoming a coder again xd)
4) although you don't know shit about me you think I'm on the upper end of progress because I mentioned 200 will = easy. I think I'm doing well but you clearly have no clue what is possible with just basic gameplay and a general understanding of how things work in the game.

My bias is however that unknowingly I sort of had unlimited salt from the beginning of the game which I started making use of about 2-3 months into the game. This is mainly because noone cares about salt at this point so you can always thingwall somewhere where you know a few places and collect. I basically never have to think about hunger which I learned is not actually the case for everyone and probably attributes to 70% of my stats but also it wasn't too hard to figure out salt is absurdly op and search for new nodes, so I don't really know where this puts me. However I played for 2 months with only a single salt node that I knew of and a general lack of knowledge regarding everything. There are certain threads in the How do I forum that immensely helped me to understand the game most of them I also created myself and I'm not shy to ask questions in general.

Also regarding Shubla posts, I think I'm not disagreeing with everything, some things I just carefully observe like the sieging thing. I have no clue about it and would probably also be lost vs siege. My belief is that I should 100% lose if the ram gets ready and balancing it around the drying time investment that you can easily split up between a bunch of nerds is pretty bad. But at the same time I have no clue and never had to do more than putting up a wball and come back the next day. I start reading posts in the forum starting with a neutral mind however almost everyone of Shublas posts turn out beyond retarded, it's absolutely boggling to me. It's like someone telling you that the world is flat retard level. You'd probably ban a flat earther in this forum, why not Shubla? Anyway, a flat earther might also spit out something usefull once in a while but that just comes with the burden of listing to all the rest of his bullshit and trying to think it through.

Also stop comparing me to botters and shit. They do what they do under current circumstances and I don't care how much benefit it has to them, I'd rather try and help the devs to create a game that doesn't require bots than learning how to code myself to play a video game. Just figure out a different way to put lables on me the next time.

Thanks

[algam]

- If someone would siege my village, brickwall or not their success would be 100% guaranteed since I am alone. And if somebody does not understand why siege is 100% successfull against hermits like me please explain me again how can I defend when I do not even log in daily.

why do you feel entitled to a base that cant be raided when u barely log in and don't know how the sieging mechanics work? didn't read the rest.

Please dear wonder-but, please tell me what made you think I feel entitled. English is not my first language and I am willing to learn. Looking forward for your reply.

[algam]

Since you quoted me I believe that you are putting me in one of those camps

Hi Pommfritz. You are right. I was putting you in one of those camps . Sorry if this offends you.
I have nothing agains any player that does what the game allows. I am mostly a "facebook mum" and I do not see this as beeing better than being one of the "snugglesnails" since it is a less creative style of play.

For me having 200 will on a char without wanting it sounds like science fiction. From my experience I could name you Asimov for saying this

In my defence please compare what I understand from your last post (and keep in mind that even if I have explored half of a big continent I did not encounter a salt basin, probably unlucky, mostly lazy possibly)
"I have a way , using a rare resource, to grow my stats fast"
with
"I have no idea how you would avoid getting 200 will over the course of a couple weeks"

The second statment makes it look like it is very easy and in everybody's reach to do that, only stupid people would not do that.

And since everybody has the right to an opinion I still can not believe that is an easy thing to do to be a hermit that grows crops quality, hunts, mines, grows animals quality and still explore and harvest salt basins and cook so much food to grow an unwanted stat to 200 in 2 or a bit more weeks.

[Pommfritz]

I'm not quite sure how to answer, first of all I responded to Shubla but I guess he didn't only speak for himself. Your case/ experience might be different.
I also don't have any opinon on having a 200 will requirment for using Charter stones(?) I didn't even know this existed. I just have an opinon on the need to create a trade alt for 200 will because the way for people to go through progressing their stats results in extra unwanted stats, will being one of the "unwanted" stats that can actually go quite high because of this. 1/5-1/3 of your highest stat is probably ending up being will if you just use truffles on your food to some degree. If 2-4 weeks is too little time, cool let it be 3 months, who cares. Or maybe you didn't pay attention to truffles, so your will is very low and you sort of have to catch up to being able to use the Charter stone.
You can do this using food and here is how:
1) milk 20l from your goats per day.
2) put the milk in your curd tub and come back the next day.
3) fill 5 cheese trays with the goat curd you just got
4) put 5 cheese trays into cheese racks and move it around every now and then to make formaela
5) eat it

a curd tub produces a curd every 36 mins so you could technically empty it 2 times a day, however nobody wants to do that so we chill and empty it once a day for 20 curds. 20 curds will produce 15 formaela cheese with the process above.
1 formalea cheese will net you 33% will+2, 33% agi+1, 33% con+1
if you eat 15 a day that is 10will, 5agi, 5con per day.
I thought the math would get a little more complicated but since you shit out 15 formaela each day after about a week of waiting for your first batch this would get you 200 will after 27 days, including your first day of waiting with 1-2 goats and 5mins of your time a day, just make a dedicated space where formaela is the only thing to produce and it's not hard at all.
Also I have no clue if formaela is even the best will food but I liked to eat it and it has pretty good fep per bite + you get 3 per cheese tray when finishing the process making it pretty efficient to produce. You also don't need to waste your time searching for truffles if the sole purpose is raising will!
Formaela also gives you some pretty cool side stats so yea I think it's pretty hard to not get to 200 will and this is a decent way of forcing some will into your stats if you missed the truffle party.

The second statment makes it look like it is very easy and in everybody's reach to do that, only stupid people would not do that.

This felt like a very offensive statement but the math leads me to believe it's true.

And since everybody has the right to an opinion I still can not believe that is an easy thing to do to be a hermit that grows crops quality, hunts, mines, grows animals quality and still explore and harvest salt basins and cook so much food to grow an unwanted stat to 200 in 2 or a bit more weeks.

Exploring is pretty dope but kind of off-topic: at this point in the game you could check all those boxes that you try to do by yourself by going exploring. My crops would probaby hit q100 if I wasn't going out and looting q250+ crops and trading for some sick sick turnips. I haven't been hunting in a month because every noob has cupboards full of moose, bear, deer, mutton, beef and some pork. I traded a big anvil and hammer very early on for bat guano and coins that I looted and also I found half my steel and probably 90% of my gold while exploring with criminal acts on. Nevermind all those random high quality tools and gear that are for some reason on the most basic claims. I think I tamed a total of 2 animals which I have long replaced and also I tamed a bunch of pigs to fill up the pen and basically just slaugthered as soon as they turned to pigs, what I have now I found while I was exploring. The Nomad credo was probably the most fun and productive thing I did in the game xD
And idk, I have access to 15+ salt basisns every 3 days if I would go there without using any alts. Maybe I'm just insanely lucky in this regard but I also had a plan to where to look for them and now you could just sort of thingwall there and run around on a horse until your inventory is full of salt, takes maybe 30 mins if you actually need the salt. So idk, the last time I looked for salt is also a bit ago since I went exploring quite successfully here and there in other areas.

Doesn't mean anyone has to do this but I think it's kinda cool and I enjoy exploring and it certainly means that being a hermit is not an excuse for a low quality outcome. Your facebook mom playstyle is totally ok tho if taht's fun for you, gaining a few stats is easy. I was about to say the information is not hidden from you and you just don't see it yet but that's not true. The food system is actually quite complex and litterally 90% is hidden from you unless you spend a ridiculous amount of effort and waste materials to figure out whats good or use 3rd party databases. So it's not really your fault for believing 200 stats of something is hard to get.

[algam]

Damn, man. I'm not quite sure how to answer myself.
You have 15+ salt basin, I have not seen one . That is probably on me
From the villages around me best I got was 73q turnip. I already had 80+ at that time. My best seeds and tools came from flotsam
I have not seen an active player in ages around me. And I liked that since last time I got gangbanged.
But it seems I need to change my style. Maybe next world

[Pommfritz]

yea not next to me but close enough to thingwalls that I could talk myself into going there every 3 days if I would have to. honestly 3-5 that you harvest regularly is probably enough for most people.

[DoctorCookie]

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You are acting like this is casual playing, easy for the average noob. Your missing the point. This is great information, good advice, much of it depends on when you arrive in the world, but ok. Your mentioning multiple alts. You are a no lifer(i do not mean that as a negative,) your not an average player. I do not agree that there are two camps of players, I think that there is a vast middle class that gets griefed out, but that is semantics. Thx for the tips, but they are just that, tips to become more hardcore.

[SnuggleSnail]

I would agree that the power difference between average players and the top 1% is way too big. As far as I'm concerned the average player may as well not exist, they're literally irrelevant of to me. Hundreds of you as you are now couldn't hope to do anything meaningful to me. That seems really bad, especially since if anything I'm underexaggerating how insignificant you are.

Botting is a lot less advanced than people give it credit for. It probably could get really bad, but I think by pure luck and laziness nobody has been autistic enough to go all out yet. There's some stuff that I would say is near mandatory from a min/max perspective, but again none of it is necessary to fight the average player. If I were a hermit with 100 strength it would only change my behavior towards 1% of the playerbase, and I would still be confident to kill their crafters then run away.

What I'm trying to say is I think you're at least partially misidentifying the problem. In order I think what's keeping you down is:

• A defeatist attitude. I can't count the number of times I've sieged people easily I should stand no chance against, simply because they gave up and moves - even when moving is x100 the effort of defending. Nobody even wants to try. Nobody can recognize when they should win. People die to dressed up 10 strength alts on 1k strength miners because they're afraid
• Too many, and too complex systems
• Lack of access to a viable client
• Lack of experience, and no reasonable way to gain it without basically asking somebody to mentor you
• Lack of guides / competent wiki
• Nothing to push average players into minor conflicts where they can gain experience / confidence
• No PVE encounters or similar that give experience that could transfer to PVP
• Something about trade idk