Russia invades Ukraine

[shubla]

Can you blame russian people?

If they eat the propaganda they're given is it their fault?

Is it putins fault that there is invasion if he is only told half truths and lies?

[WowGain]

Can you blame russian people?

If they eat the propaganda they're given is it their fault?

Is it putins fault that there is invasion if he is only told half truths and lies?

yes, yes, and yes actually.
we kind of figured this out during the nuremberg trials that "doing what you're told" and "propaganda" aren't excuses for human rights violations.

[fallout]

"its simple, we kill the batman"

Also he's definitely no batman

[ErdTod]

some bullshit

If your opinion is that deplatforming people who speak i.e. for anti-vaccination or spew causeless hate (and I get the vibe that this is what you mean by "West is no different") & that that's something bad that would "restrict Ukrainians in their freedom", then as a Ukrainian I'm urging to inform you that I'll be glad to have such restrictions. I hope I am wrong, but I feel there's a little racist, or anti-Semitic, or tansphobe, or all of above sitting inside you being very hurt he isn't allowed to voice his crappy hateful opinion.

lotta text, implying there's some grey area to the war

The war happening is quite black and white. All of your "russia should be condemned, BUT..." doesn't help to stop the war, instead, such opinion what makes it continue. That's what makes West painfully slow in their military aid to Ukraine, which costs lives. That's what strengthens russia's position with their imperialistic direct interventions into sovereign countries. Pick a side, there's no grey area here. Being "neutral" is great aid to russia.

[Odynak]

The process was not stopped, and Russia took military action. NATO definitely has part of the blame for this situation.

What were doing Russian tanks in Lithuania on Jan 1991? Fighting NATO?

Russian tanks in Azerbaijan in 1991? Fighting NATO again?

Transnistria in 1992? NATO as well?

Abkhazia? NATO?

Chechen wars? NATO?

Georgia? NATO?

Syria? NATO?

Ukraine in 2014? Did Russia take Crimea from NATO?

Then Kazakhstan? NATO too?

Now Ukraine again? NATO?

Just look through all the conflicts that Russia started and/or participated in. Is the cause of them NATO or something in the heads of Russian people?

[Odynak]

The process was not stopped, and Russia took military action. NATO definitely has part of the blame for this situation.

In 2012, only 13% of Ukrainians wanted to join NATO. And 26% wanted to join some military alliance with Russia. By the end of 2014 those numbers switched to 46% and 10% accordingly.

Guess what happened in between? Right, Crimea annexation and an attempt to cut off some more Ukrainian territories.

About 70% of Ukrainians wants to join NATO now.

So Russian logic looks like this.

Russians: lets attack Ukraine and annex some of its territory.
Ukrainians: OMG WTF? We thought we were friends. Seems like we were wrong. Now we want to join NATO instead.
Russians: we warn you against joining NATO and we will treat your such a step as a threat to us. So let us be friends.
Ukrainians: but you attacked us already! How we can be friends now? We want to join NATO now!
Russians: oh, what a bad move. We did not allow you to join NATO. Let's be friends!
* Russia launches missiles, sends in tanks, destroys cities, kills children and women.
Russians: this is all NATO's fault!

[MadNomad]

Can you blame russian people?

maybe only the ones who do something bad, and not some average russian pleb who is just playing hnh, going to work, eating, sleeping, and living their life

some traitors in TV might tell you that average russian wants war, but it is not true, he is quite similiar to average finn or average pole or average american, and at the best is in charge only of his house

[WowGain]

Pick a side, there's no grey area here. Being "neutral" is great aid to russia.

The most terrifying thing you could ever say to obligate centrists like VDZ

[shubla]

Cruel stuff in Mariupol.

[VDZ]

Guess what happened in between? Right, Crimea annexation and an attempt to cut off some more Ukrainian territories.

Also, Euromaidan and the Revolution of Dignity which ousted the Russian puppet leader. Those definitely influenced matters as well.

Ukrainians: OMG WTF? We thought we were friends.

The annexation of Crimea happened immediately after the Revolution of Dignity, when Ukraine moved to become more independent of Russia. Friendship (if you can call the relationship between a bully and the bullied 'friendship') was already over at that point.

Pick a side, there's no grey area here. Being "neutral" is great aid to russia.

The most terrifying thing you could ever say to obligate centrists like VDZ

I refuse to yield to 'you're either with us or against us' rhetoric. If that makes me your enemy, then so be it.