HnH Needs Adjustment to Wipe Frequency or Progression

[Antvgr]

I think we can debate until the world freezes over if faction play or competitive play is good or bad or whatever, but I think most people can agree that the game is most lively, active, and fun, in the first two and a half months of server up.

That's for active PvP players. The game is set up to heavily discourage any non-village player interaction, so most players actually play hermit or small village style. They don't play nearly at the same speed as large PvP factions do.

[Ø]

I'm a turbo autist, but even I would skip every second world at least if they were on a three months schedule. That's what I know I'd do just thinking about it, the actual feeling of being involved in wipes that frequent would probably be worse. This would not stem the natural decay every MMO has between major patches, it'd just make resets mundane.

If people have a problem with the late game the better solution is to make the late game suck less. Previous worlds had big issues late world, but the current mechanics make enjoying the late world neigh impossible for a normal person, or even an autist who's dedicating less than their entire life to the game. It's unsustainable.

Honestly, what Snail said. As a noob (first world) and hermit I lasted about 6 months before the tedium became more than I was willing to deal with. Most of my high end stuff I traded for or made with the use of open market kilns and smelters. After 6 months I was still unable to make things of equal or better quality than I could use somewhere else (excluding Whatever Bay since they seemed to have stopped upgrading free use stuff).

The tedium of upkeep to a farm is what got me. The need to expand that farm and knowing how much more effort it would take to keep it is what got me. Knowing that with all the effort put into a farm prevented me from enjoying other aspects of this game is what got me. But, mostly, being a complete noob and not picking a direction is what got me.

I do not feel that shorter worlds will help this game thrive. I do not believe that shorter worlds will bring in and retain new players that will be unable to reach the foothills of the mountains of the learning curve that this game has. I do not know if PVP would be better or worse in short wipe worlds, but I do trust Snail to give an honest opinion on the matter.


My opinion is more catch up mechanics for things that are already planted along with breeding catch up mechanics and anything to prevent the tedium of creating and maintaining a farm. Taking the burden off of things that keep people in their safepali will encourage people to get the fuck out of their safepali.


Also, shorter worlds mean new exploits in the form of VClaim anything and everything just for the simple fact that no one else can use that particular resource either for the rest of the world or until someone sieges. The exception would be when someone attempts to make a vclaim too close to another blocking the ability claim local resources, but w/e... Troll claims gonna troll.

[Clemins]

All in all, I agree with the notion that tedium being reduced in favor of a very short (~3-5ish month) wipe cycle is probably preferable. The problem is that the "fun" people derive from Haven is subjective and changing anything is going to make someone screech. Not to mention, this is one of those frequent issues where Haven is trying to cater to two distinctly different groups at once (villages/groups and hermits). The hermits might never reach "the end game" and feel like there is a lot more left to do while the villages finished everything 5 months ago.

Like a lot of people here, I've played both as a hermit and in villages enough to confidently say that this game is 100% not designed to ensure the competitiveness of single person claims vs 30+ villages/factions. Since this is the case, the game SHOULD be designed around the assumption that people are working together in one form or another. Anyone who willfully hermits and actively chooses to avoid living in a village should not be able to compare to the work of a group of people.

With all that being said, a lot of tasks directly correlate to time and effort spent (don't get me wrong, I hate this too). But then the issue becomes discerning between genuine, addressable, and reasonable changes vs. a hermit that logs on 1 day a week for 2 hours or that one weirdo who has infinite time and hates themselves enough to manage something like silk farms efficiently. So even though getting into the semantics of the subjectively "good tedium" and "bad tedium" would probably help actually narrow down things that can be reasonably changed, our community is not reasonable lmao.

[tldr] + With that being said, 6 months

[joojoo1975]

This entre thread sickens me.

Why the fuck even play the game if all you are going to do is Bot your way to greatness?

I remember Botting was talked about a Lot in World 2 and 3. And there were a few who Pleaded with J&L to do Something about the bot problem as characters would Bot buckets of whole forests.

Now look at us. Freely talking of Scripts, bots, using shared chars between people.



All for What.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Eh, the only bots that I think are *necessary* to be competitive in early world are the animal spawners. Farm scripts and area picker etc are nice time savers, though.

Animal spawners are going to hopefully be rendered obsolete or at least unnecessary, as Jorb has "animal totems" on his list of development priorities.

However, after early world, you need fully automated swill production and cheese making, which is arguably an issue. But by this point at least 80% of players have quit.

I think there's also little argument that you need to be able to run a custom client for PvP. Preferably one that lets you click on small animals more easily.

[Hickupp]

But the test may be more successful if it was done on the main branch.

True. That the outcome would be potentially significant different between those two cases. But so would be the potential risk factor.
Whether either case would be deemed 'successful' (or 'conclusive' for that matter), in the minds of the dev's (well, Jorb actually), is questionable though.

Convincing Jorb to try either case is the major issue. Personally I think using the main branch for this has zero chance. The two world options is to potentially work around that.
(Code/system wise Loftar seems more than capable to implement that two world option considering the current state of the game.)

[Antvgr]

this game is 100% not designed to ensure the competitiveness of single person claims vs 30+ villages/factions.

Why the assumptions that there is a need to be competetive at all? Most players i know play to simply tend to their home, not to win over someone.

Why the fuck even play the game if all you are going to do is Bot your way to greatness?

I remember Botting was talked about a Lot in World 2 and 3. And there were a few who Pleaded with J&L to do Something about the bot problem as characters would Bot buckets of whole forests.

Now look at us. Freely talking of Scripts, bots, using shared chars between people.

absolutely agree. Boting is what turns people from the game.

[Ø]

Why the fuck even play the game if all you are going to do is Bot your way to greatness?

I remember Botting was talked about a Lot in World 2 and 3. And there were a few who Pleaded with J&L to do Something about the bot problem as characters would Bot buckets of whole forests.

Now look at us. Freely talking of Scripts, bots, using shared chars between people.

absolutely agree. Boting is what turns people from the game.

Actually, botting being allowed per the devs is one of the things that interested me and got me to play in the first place.

[Clemins]

this game is 100% not designed to ensure the competitiveness of single person claims vs 30+ villages/factions.

Why the assumptions that there is a need to be competetive at all? Most players i know play to simply tend to their home, not to win over someone.

Isn't that one of the main focuses when the topic of content comes up though? Obviously its in the best interests of large groups to be competitive with eachother and is a major part of the drive to raise qualities and run markets, for instance. Hermits cannot keep up, with or without bots, and often leads to hermits being upset they can't keep up and typically call for stronger catchup mechanics.

I get what you mean from an actual relaxed casual player standpoint, and I can see how this is a non-issue to someone like that. But again, as I pointed out, havens player population isn't all super casual players and it also isn't all hyper competitive players. So it's hard to cater to both diametrically opposed groups in this case. Though, some specific tedium reduction in certain flat out time consuming tasks helps everyone, imo.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

HnH has an incredible amount of content, but it doesn't all need to be explored in one wipe.

Rust wipes monthly on all official servers, I believe. I'd argue it has less content, and "Tier 3" in Rust is locked behind a significant tedious grind which stops most players from ever reaching it in a wipe.
It peaked 113k concurrent on steam in the last 24 hours.

At its heart, HnH is a survival crafting game similar to Rust, but on a single server shard, and with more emphasis on PvE and progression than PvP.
But it still needs to wipe.