HnH Needs Adjustment to Wipe Frequency or Progression

[springyb]

Like a lot of people here, I've played both as a hermit and in villages enough to confidently say that this game is 100% not designed to ensure the competitiveness of single person claims vs 30+ villages/factions. Since this is the case, the game SHOULD be designed around the assumption that people are working together in one form or another. Anyone who willfully hermits and actively chooses to avoid living in a village should not be able to compare to the work of a group of people.

With all that being said, a lot of tasks directly correlate to time and effort spent (don't get me wrong, I hate this too). But then the issue becomes discerning between genuine, addressable, and reasonable changes vs. a hermit that logs on 1 day a week for 2 hours or that one weirdo who has infinite time and hates themselves enough to manage something like silk farms efficiently. So even though getting into the semantics of the subjectively "good tedium" and "bad tedium" would probably help actually narrow down things that can be reasonably changed, our community is not reasonable lmao.

I've hermited this game for over a decade, it wasn't always like this. All of the tools that hermits had against factions have been gutted because of years of bad faith "think of the sprucecaps" feedback given to devs and it's made fear of retaliation from leaving scents everywhere negligible. You can call me a weirdo (I am) but I think it's weirder to strip all of Jorbs artwork from the game and play as a battle royal like nerds. But honestly it's what I like best about this game because it's fascinating that haven offers something that can be experienced in extremely different types, even Advent scum.

If people have a problem with the late game the better solution is to make the late game suck less. Previous worlds had big issues late world, but the current mechanics make enjoying the late world neigh impossible for a normal person, or even an autist who's dedicating less than their entire life to the game. It's unsustainable.

I agree. Haven consists of many ideas that COULD be fleshed out enough to be a long term game. I think two problems are that PvE caps at like 100 stats and hunger mechanics aren't fun.

[springyb]

Eh, the only bots that I think are *necessary* to be competitive in early world are the animal spawners. Farm scripts and area picker etc are nice time savers, though.

Animal spawners are going to hopefully be rendered obsolete or at least unnecessary, as Jorb has "animal totems" on his list of development priorities.

However, after early world, you need fully automated swill production and cheese making, which is arguably an issue. But by this point at least 80% of players have quit.

I think there's also little argument that you need to be able to run a custom client for PvP. Preferably one that lets you click on small animals more easily.

My brother in christ please take a W before taking a stance on what's manditory for PvP.

[SnuggleSnail]

I think two problems are that PvE caps at like 100 stats and hunger mechanics aren't fun.

The single biggest problem in haven's late game RN is questing for quality. Nothing else comes close. It is crisis levels of bad. If this were a popular game with serious discussion around it people would be freaking the fuck out. Nothing else should even be discussed in C&I.

That said, the hunger system sucking and trade not existing is what does it in most for me personally. Which is sad, because both of these issues could be 99% resolved with pretty minor changes.

[springyb]

The single biggest problem in haven's late game RN is questing for quality. Nothing else comes close. It is crisis levels of bad. If this were a popular game with serious discussion around it people would be freaking the fuck out. Nothing else should even be discussed in C&I.

That said, the hunger system sucking and trade not existing is what does it in most for me personally. Which is sad, because both of these issues could be 99% resolved with pretty minor changes.

We should try deleting hunger about it.

What if quest quality rewards were tied to their TW and publicly displayed, and the bonuses were shared when connected via realm? Would that give faction people something to fight over?

[SnuggleSnail]

Then the ideal way to abuse it becomes raising something that can be controlled within that tile and placing a dummy realm on it, and the ideal way to attack it is for other factions to build their own dummy realm on that tile and expand it into their own tile where they've also walled the nodes.

Nobody enjoys questing and that by itself should be enough to scrap questing for quality, but even if it were popular PVP should never be a way to monopolize quality growth. People who enjoy raising quality should have their place in the world without being forced to PVP.

I don't see any realistic solutions that aren't listed here: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=75601

[vatas]

That said, the hunger system sucking and trade not existing is what does it in most for me personally. Which is sad, because both of these issues could be 99% resolved with pretty minor changes.

"Traveling merchant will be a viable profession" and its consequences have been a disaster for the Hearthling race.

[Dawidio123]

That said, the hunger system sucking and trade not existing is what does it in most for me personally. Which is sad, because both of these issues could be 99% resolved with pretty minor changes.

"Traveling merchant will be a viable profession" and its consequences have been a disaster for the Hearthling race.

Not to mention stuff like "oh people use naked alts to fight bears, we better cap the animal quality to the survi of the ppl fighting it" back in legacy i clearly remember hunting bears and selling them unbutchered to get myself some tools, ofc it was also way easier due to vc porting instead of needing like 100+ will to get anywhere relevant.
I do agree that 12 months interval is a bit too long for the wipes, and something closer to the 6 months suggested by Clemins would be ideal for me. Because let's say I feel like playing hnh again, okay check the website, 200 players, okay just wait like 6 months until i can play again I guess. And the fact that the development speed slows down significantly past 1-2 months (this time it was very quick ngl) doesn't help either. And as Snail said, the late game being all about questing for quality is dumb, i can't be arsed to quest in the first couple of days to get lp for skills, not to mention long-term daily grind, it's a bad mechanic and should be something for larpers to fuck around with instead of mandatory ql push.

[wonder-ass]

I agree with this, I've asked for this countless times but my opinion unfortunately is in the minority. a majority of the player base are people that do not care about grinding and would likely stop playing if the game was wiped too consistently.

[Antvgr]

Not to mention stuff like "oh people use naked alts to fight bears, we better cap the animal quality to the survi of the ppl fighting it" back in legacy i clearly remember hunting bears and selling them unbutchered to get myself some tools, ofc it was also way easier due to vc porting instead of needing like 100+ will to get anywhere relevant.

I am not a big expert on the question, but why not fix abuse in the first place? It's a problem of a system if players can kill bear naked. Somehow main guide on battle system say you should fight animals exclusevly with boat abuse and nobody bats an eye?

[Dawidio123]

Not to mention stuff like "oh people use naked alts to fight bears, we better cap the animal quality to the survi of the ppl fighting it" back in legacy i clearly remember hunting bears and selling them unbutchered to get myself some tools, ofc it was also way easier due to vc porting instead of needing like 100+ will to get anywhere relevant.

Well then make a post in C&I with your intended solution to the issue of the optimal way to hunt being cheesing. You could make the cheese impossible with A LOT of changes but then we run into an issue of some animals not being balanced around a 1v1 but instead being balanced around cheese or a group hunt. And then we have the issue of stuff like orcas or whales which not only have insane hp/armor but also bash your boat as you fight them AND can be faster than the said boat.
There is no simple solution to the whole conundrum that doesn't involve a huge overhaul of hunting, and honestly if that was gonna make hunting even more tedious than it is rn, I don't think many people would be happy about it.

Also naked alts can't really KILL a bear due to armor, but you can absolutely use them to get extra openings/tank some hits at basically no cost to yourself. Not that useful but afaik this is the main reason for attacker survi capping the animal (do correct me if i'm wrong, because i'm just assuming), other being maybe devs wanting hunters to get survi instead of just having a dedicated butchering alt (which honestly is not really needed due to how slow the tool quality which also caps the animals is raised, you can easily keep up with the survi, it only feels like shit when you want to rush rage and other crime skills so wasting even that few tousand lp on survi feels bad, but if you don't then everything you hunt is 1ql). The question being, is ruining that aspect of trade for hermits (well other than early game traveling being basically impossible for them) worth fixing the issue of some groups having an easier time hunting/using a dedicated butchering alt instead of raising survi on all hunter characters.